Has Donald Trump's election been followed by a wave of hate crimes?

Some sources seem to take it for granted that hate crimes are increasing after Trump’s election. But are they really?

Perhaps I’m inclined to skepticism because of personal experience. During my senior year in college, activists lead by a professor named Kerri Dunn were trying hard to convince the campus community that we were under attack by white supremacists. One day Prof. Dunn found her car with windows shattered, tires slashed, and swastikas spray-painted on. The Claremont colleges cancelled classes and scheduled rallies, teach-ins and so forth to show off how much they were determined to protect us against the tide of white supremacist hate overwhelming our campus. Then it turned out that Dunn had vandalized her own car, with the intention of proving how totally real the white supremacists were. Ever since then, I’ve found it’s useful to be wary of hate crime reports, especially when the “hate crime” in question happens to perfectly validate the narrative of a certain political movement.

After Trump was elected, there were many reports of violent hate crimes. The general narrative being like this: one or more white men, either wear Trump paraphernalia or shouting Trump slogans, descend on a Muslim women/black person/gay person and beat them up, or threaten to do so.

Now I live in a state (North Dakota) that voted Trump by almost 40% and is overwhelmingly white. If white male Trump supporters were actually roaming the country and turning randomly violent against everyone else, I would expect that such reports would emerge commonly from North Dakota or other such states. But I’ve heard of no such claims in North Dakota. Instead they seemed to come from liberal strongholds like New York, or enclaves such as college campuses. I also noted that in all the cases I encountered, there was never a corroborating witness to the event other than the one reported victim. And somehow, even in our age of ubiquitous smart phones, there was never a video of any of these assaults.

For example, the day after the elction, a Muslim student in Louisiana claimed to Police that she’d been attacked and had her head scarf torn off by two white men, one wearing a Trump hat. That fits the narrative promoted by certain people rather nicely. It was a hoax. Likewise, Yasmin Seweid, who made a similar claim in New York. And another Muslim woman in Michigan. But no need to focus just on Muslim women making fake claims of attacks by white men. Plenty of other people have been making phony claims of hate crimes. In other cases, there may have been actual crimes, but they had nothing to do with politics.

But what about the numerical evidence? Well, I have not seen any reports confirming increased hate crimes since the election from the FBI, or from any law enforcement office. Instead, media outlets such as the New Yorker article I linked to above all point to a report by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), supposedly documenting thousands of post-election hate crimes. However, there are many reasons to be skeptical of that as well. SPLC is a left-wing organization with a clear bias. Their fundraising pitches depend on repeatedly terrifying people with tales of the surge in hate crimes, hate groups, etc… The particular “study” being widely circulated as proof of surging hate crimes probably doesn’t deserve to be called a study. The SPLC merely circulated an email to a list of teachers, asking them to report “hate incidents”. Their definition is so broad that almost anything could be a hate incident, and according to the First Amendment, most of those incidents were not crimes. Further, SPLC did not investigation of whether any of the actual reported incidents took place. Given the parade of hoaxes, that would seem to be an important thing to do. And lastly, they carefully removed any mention of many reported incidents in which Trump supporters were the victims.

There’s been much talk about how public trust in the media hovers near all-time lows, while people are being suckered by fake news. But if mainstream media outlets want to be perceived as the real news that’s better than the fake news, perhaps they should do some more careful checking of their own sources.

:confused: Why would you expect that white-supremacist/white-nationalist-perpetrated hate crimes against non-whites would be concentrated in states that are overwhelmingly white? It seems logical to me that they’d occur in places where there actually are significant numbers of non-whites.

You really like telling this story, don’t you?

What about it, indeed? I see you’ve listed several hoaxes; in your research, did you come across any actual incidents of anti-Muslim hate crimes committed since the election in the US? Or did you conduct research in such a manner (e.g., browsing Breitbart) guaranteed only to pull up hoaxes?

Yeah, hoaxes are occurring. They’re despicable, and I condemn them utterly. Your OP strongly suggests you think that’s all there are, though, and I’m curious if that’s what you intended.

Yeah, not so much.

Finally, I understand your concern about leaving the collection of data about hate crimes up to nonprofits. You’re absolutely right that this is not the best way to collect data. Surely you’ll come out in support for more robust governmental systems for tracking hate crimes on a national basis, systems that provide us data in an up-to-the-minute fashion the way that the SPLC does. Assuming this approach from you, I laud your recognition of this vital government function!

Well, if we’re looking for data on actual verified hate crimes, AFAICT the most recent statistics are the FBI report on hate crimes in 2015:

Right, but ITR wants to know NOW about stats over the last eight weeks or so. The only people collecting those are SPLC, because they’re really interested in ending hate crimes; but because they’re so interested in ending hate crimes, he dismisses them as biased, so they’re out as a source. Presumably he’d dismiss anyone else with a career dedicated to ending hate crimes. He might accept a government source–except that government sources are currently much slower.

There’s no source he’ll currently accept, I think, which is why I hope he joins me in calling for devoting significant government resources to providing more current stats.

While you are clearly eager to show off how cleverly you can mock me, that’s not really the point of the thread.

A general vibe from certain columnists, writers, Facebook posts, etc… is that many liberals are suffering mental anguish from the wave of violence and white supremacy set off by Trump, with some reporting depression, trembling in fear, losing interest in sex, and in a few cases even contemplating suicide. It would seem that liberal news sources like the New Yorker and the Washington Post could do their readers a service by putting the facts out there plainly: many of the violent hate crime reports circulating on social media have proven to be hoaxes, and the one “study” supposedly proving that hate crimes are rising is extremely questionable.

Really? I’m just pissed off.

Is this still the vibe? Immediately after the election, there were people acting in ways that were not entirely rational. I had to take a little time to get my head around the new paradigm. So I am not looking for these columnists or posts or whatever, but since you are looking for them , just out of curiosity, are they still being made, or is this something that is old news that you are bringing up again?

There are a few reasons to be upset by Trump. First, is you are young. (you being the royal you, referring to people upset by the trump.) College students and younger, having this kind of shock, with little in their lives to compare it to, I can see them getting overly reactionary. So, I do wonder if it is mostly college students and that age group you are seeing like this, or if there are “adults” (as a near 40 year old, I think adult starts at 25, maybe 30, these days) that are exhibiting these behaviors that have you so concerned.

The other reason to be upset by trump winning, is if you happen to be a minority. By minority, I mean anyone not a white, straight, Christian, male. As a white straight male who can pass for christian, I am actually not too concerned about how I will fare in the upcoming administration. There may even be some advantages, short term and short sighted as they are. But yeah, considering that he was elected while saying rather bigoted things, indicates to me, that people would be enabled by such. If I chide someone for saying something racist, and they reply with “well that’s what the president says.”, I am not sure how the conversation progresses from there. To doubt that trump has created an resurgence of hatred and bigotry in this country is to ignore not just the reports that come in, but also to completely ignore human nature.

If I were one of the really marginal groups, gay or transgendered, and only in the last few years has your status as a human being been secured, and you see how fragile that is, and you see what is coming to replace the govt of tolerance and acceptance, I can see being a bit concerned. As these people were contemplating and committing suicide before their status was recognized, the idea that they may go back to such with the new administration that may very well reverse much of that recognition should not be all that surprising. Now, if you are against the gay or tg community, then you may just think of this as a good thing, but I would disagree with you rather vehemently.

I think it’s safe to assume that the media (well, certain factions at least) set out to find hate crimes after the election, the result would be not that there’s a significant increase of hate crimes overall, but that things that normally would have gone unreported are made public, thus creating a perception of increased violence.
It wouldn’t be the first time media hype creates a moral panic.

There is also maybe another reason there are more hate crimes in New York than in North Dakota.

New York	   population  19,378,102
North Dakota	population 672,591

You would also expect hate crime in general to occur in places where there are significant numbers of blacks, since blacks are twice as likely to commit hate crimes as you would expect from their proportion of the population overall. But, yes, overall you would expect more hate crime where there were groups that were disproportionately both perpetrators and victims.

Regards,
Shodan

Your point seems to be mocking liberals, but I’ll decline to join you in this beloved past-time. For one thing, your mockery in this case is foolish and unfounded.

Again, everybody knows that some percentage of the claims are hoaxes. I certainly condemn those. The question is, do you think this is all of them? If not, why are you spending 100% of your time sneering about the hoaxes, and zero percent of your time worrying about the actual hate crimes (and legal hate speech) committed in the wake of the election of Trump?

Do you think this:

is a valid report of a hate crime? There are no police reports, no witnesses, nothing but a 14 year old kid saying so*. Link.

Additionally, the SPLC states explicitly that many of these are anecdotal:

Given the fact that many are anecdotal and ITR Champion has provided cites on fake hate crimes being reported, it seems to me that *you *are the one who lacks any kind of serious argument.

Slee

*Note, this incident may have happened. Or the 14 year old could be making up stuff. This is why self-reporting is problematic.

I think there’s really going to be no way to tell for a while, possibly ever. There’s a reason that the FBI doesn’t issue weekly updates on hate crime statistics, although I’m sure they have the power to run that database query.

It takes time to filter through reports and do good old fashioned police work.

And there are probably lots of cases where neither suspect nor evidence of fabrication is found. I would guess that this means you could never really know what happened. If there’s a spike in reports that can’t ever be resolved, probably some of those are actually real and some are fake, but how could you come up with a reasonable fact-based estimate?

We could have every single police station in the country diligently reporting everything they hear to a neutral body compiling the data, and we still might not be able to answer the question.

No, because it’s not a crime. Glad to clear that up for you! I’d be happy to tell the reporter as well, if you need that to happen but can’t do it yourself and provide me the appropriate contact information.

Well, no, I take that back. The reporter’s confusion about what comprises a “hate crime” isn’t really all that important to me, and contacting them just to be a pedantic dick would not be appropriate. If you’re confused about the issue, though, lemme know.
You’re in this thread, so you’ve voluntarily exposed yourself to my pedantic dickery.

Every story in every major media outlet that I read which provided specifics of a particular Trump-inspired hate crime has since been proven false. I wouldn’t try to make the claim that there were none, but I haven’t seen any specific, high-profile incident that still might be true. The MSM narrative on this issue certainly fell apart when their handful of go-to examples ended up being hoaxes. If someone has one or more actual incident they’d like to discuss, I’d be delighted to do so.

So the kid who reported the alleged incident should be informed that it wasn’t a hate crime. And since the SPLC is the only one collecting stats, they need to be told not to bother about this non-crime, and that their reports aren’t reliable either.

That does clear things up - the black kid who reported it as a hate crime was lying, and no one is collecting stats over the last eight weeks.

Regards,
Shodan

Literally every sentence there is wrong except the opinion, and that’s only not wrong because opinions cannot be incorrect.

For a start, go read the report.