Onan’s or Onan’s brother’s estate?
Yes, I also thought of Pius XII when I wrote that post.
Why should he? His message is very clear.
Yeah, “I’ll never openly criticize Russia, and I’ll tell Ukraine to stand down and surrender.” Couldn’t be clearer.
Wrong on both counts.
Of course that also begs the question, how man divisions does the pope have?
He’s very divisive.
This is a fiction in your own mind, unless you can find a cite where Francis is asking Putin to leave Ukraine, in the same way that he asked Ukraine to wave the white flag and negotiate.
Francis is doing the same thing as every other “peace-seeker” giving free advice in the Ukraine conflict - appeasement. They don’t ask that the invader end the invasion by leaving the invaded country. Russia is this inevitable force, it must never be provoked or criticized, we can only appease it and hope for the best. No, the only party we can try to persuade is Ukraine, who’s expected to trade land for peace.
No, the sin there is failing to live up to your social responsibility (in that society and time) by knockong up your dead brother’s widow, since this would bind her to your family and make you responsible for her well being. That was seen aswhat you should do for your brother; in the original story, Onan was punished because he tried to shirk responsibility.
Well, I’m sure she was much better off after Onan was struck dead, right? …right?
You can’t negotiate with the Russians. Not unless you want to repeat 2014.
Trading entire Ukranian provinces for single digit years of peace is not a sustainable option for Ukraine.
But there isn’t a single “Eastern Orthodox Church”. If the Patriarch of Rome is the Pope, there is no equivalent Patriarch to all of Eastern Orthodoxy; instead, there are like 15.
And in fact, the Church of Constantinople is no longer in communion with the Church of Moscow:
Does the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople simply have bigger balls than Pope Francis?
I think that we can all agree that Francis’s response to the Ukraine War has been lacking. At worst, he’s pro-Russia. At best, he did a really poor job of messaging. The truth is probably somewhere in between there, but we’re really just disputing how bad it was, not whether it was bad.
I know, that’s why I wrote “churches”, and AFAIK the Catholic Church is in communion with all Orthodox Churches, though I might be wrong.
No, I believe you’re correct, my point was just that if the Greek church could cut ties with the Russian, so could the Roman Catholic Church. (And one might imagine this would be easier for the Catholic church than a fellow Orthodox one, but that’s just a guess).
But I did further reading (trying to see if any other Orthodox Churches cut ties), and learned that actually, this is a one-way split. Basically the Greek Orthodox church was going to give more religious autonomy to the churches in Ukraine, and since this recognizes Ukraine as an entity which is something Putin and his pet bishop are against, they cut communion with Constantinople; but the Greek church has not reciprocated.
So I take back my compliments about the Primate’s balls.
I’m not sure the Primate needs to cut off Russia. The Russian Patriarch took a pretty drastic step: Basically, he told the people of Russia, “You cannot do business with Constantinople. If you get married in Istanbul, you will be fornicating, your children will be bastards, and if they are baptized there, they are going to Hell.”
The Patriarch of Constantinople, on the other hand is telling the people of Russia, “Hey, we are all still Orthodox. It’s only the leadership we are quarrelling with.” And meanwhile, he is organizing an independent church in Ukraine.
I think it’s more complicated than that.
A pacifist might see periodic capitulation as a better option. They might feel that the 8 years between invasions gives time for things to change, leaders to die, etc. Maybe that is the Pope’s position?
It is not mine. I am not convinced that Russia needs or wants peace, that they would even accept a partial surrender, and that after 2 years of brutal fighting that they would accept surrender without retribution that dwarfed the losses from fighting.
I posted the transcript because it does not match the headlines. I found a lot of articles combing quotes from the journalist and the Pope, but it was hard to find a English version of the transcript.
I agree with @Chronos that the Pope’s response has been lacking. If he is advocating for pacifism, then calling for both sides to negotiate peace is a no-brainer. I’m not sure why that isn’t his message.
I am so glad the sentencing guidelines were changed by the time I hit puberty.
I died a thousand deaths in puberty. Small deaths…
Having been brought up in a strict Romam Catholic environment, I think the pope is doing a great job.
All he needs to do is offer thoughts and prayers, wear a silly hat and red slippers. I mean, that’s a tough job, right? But some elderly clergyman has to do it.
And drive around in an aquarium.