Again, the US isn’t at war with Mexico, officially or otherwise. OTOH, the US is currently fighting a proxy war against drug producers (and terrorists) in Columbia. The international community seems to shrug this off pretty easily.
Personally, what bothers me more is when Israel, in its campaign, violates the rules of the Bible. Without claiming that the laws in the Bible are necessarily “divine,” I think we could say that they constitute a sort of cultural mission statement for a Jewish homeland IMHO. I find destroying olive trees pretty indefensable in light of Deuteronomy 20:19
As C K Dexter Haven said
Can someone cite appropriate cultural references for or against the OP?
First of all, Israel is not governed by the laws of the Torah (Bible). Secondly, if Israel were to be governed by Jewish law, or even inspired by it, I hope that it would be Jewish law as viewed throughout the ages, i.e. biblical text with rabbinic interpretation (which you don’t quote). Thirdly, I have a bit of a problem with Israel being held to a higher moral standard when the other side is not. That sounds like racism – against the Arabs. While I am not familiar with the Koran, I can assume that the Koran does not approve of blowing up innocent children. I would like to hear you call the Arabs to the Koran as well.
But to your question. I do have a response from this page:
I know, I know. My point (I think) was that if Israel’s raison d’etre is to be a Jewish state, then we should analyse its actions in terms of a Jewish social and moral context. That’s how I interpreted CDH’s comment and it jibes with my own leanings.
Fair enough. I just plucked a particular example that I had heard of and tried (unsuccessfully I suppose) to apply the type of analysis suggested above.
I couldn’t disagree here more. First, I haven’t said anything about the other side. Second, I don’t think it’s racist to hold one’s self to a high standard. Third, my rabbi has always told me that it’s our obligation as Jews to act in accordance with the moral dictates handed down to us. Other people choose not to accept those dictates, that’s their business and it’s not for us to judge.
I’m not familiar with the Koran particularly either. Therefore, I don’t feel comfortable calling anyone to it. But I certainly think that it would be fair to analyse the actions of the Palestinans by its words or themes. Anyone more versed in this stuff want to take that up?
As to your cites, thanks. I feel (somewhat) better already.
Not that it should have been relevant, but I didn’t assume you were Jewish, and I guess that influenced my reaction. I think we (the Jews) should and have to hold ourselves to the highest standard. We are actually forbidden to “walk in their ways”.
The racism here is where two types of people - Arab and Jew - commit the same act, and one is held to a higher standard. In this case there is the obvious racism - anti-semtism that makes the Jew hater jump to accuse the Jew. But there is a deeper, more sublime, and perhaps more dangerous racism going on here as well. When a Jew is condemned for shooting a teenager who is throwing a Molotov cocktail at him, and an Arab is not condmened for blowing up a disco full of teenagers, then there is racism against the Arab as well. The assumption here is that the Arab is somehow on a lower moral level and can’t be expected to live up to the same moral standards as the Jew. I can tell you, that if I were an Arab, that would really bother me.
One last point that I didn’t mention in the previous post: I suggest you look at all the Torah’s laws about warfare before you decide that we should implement them in today’s conflict. I think in the end you might decide that certain laws made more sense in those times.
Oops…I’m new to these boards and I didn’t realise the standard of erudition was quite so high. I’ll get back to you in about 96 years after I’ve had some time to do some research. ;j
Seriously though, what suggestions regarding the current conflict does Jewish law make in your opinion?
Could someone versed in Koran/Arabic/Palestinian tradition comment on Palestinian actions from that perspective?
I haven’t seen the other threads. I don’t visit GB very often. But I doubt the veracity of that statement. That’s what Arafat wants everyone to believe, and that’s what the media says. But I wonder. The fact is that after purporting arresting known terrorists (he places them only under house arrest) he releases them after only 2-3 days. If he were serious about stopping terrorism, he would be faithful to covenants he has signed. The PLO charter, as you know, still calls for the elimination of Jews from all of Israel: drive them to the sea. Although Arafat has repeatedly said he’d repeal that, the PLO never has. Repeal of the provisions (and the charter contains many such allusions) was drafted, but never enacted.
As intimated before, primarily by tradesilicon, when a young Arab dies due to an Israelite act, he becomes a martyr and a source of joy to his/her parents. So, the proposal noted in the OP has some merit on that basis. I’m not saying I’m in agreement with it, but it’s not as nuts as it sounds.
Just a quick question…
Maybe I missed this but has there been any declaration of WAR as a few posters seem to be implying? As far as I can see this is a matter of a government dealing (rightly or wrongly) with terrorist organizations. Actually it is a hell of a lot more complicated than that considering the issues of religion, recent history, and nationalism. Ok I’m straying but as far as I know Israel and Palistine (occupied territories…whatever) are not at war with each other.
I believe a formal declaration of war would be unwise and maybe impossible. Unwise because it would give the neighboring Arab countries no reason not to give armed support to the Palestinian cause. Impossible because the world does not yet recognize an independent state of Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza. I believe declarations of war are usually made against sovereign bodies (except of course for Wal-Mart’s War on High Prices). A declaration of war may force the formation of a sovereign hostile neighbor, and Palestine’s Arab allies may be obliged to join in in any war effort.