I don’t ordinarily do much political posting on the board.
Full disclosure : I’m voting for Obama this year, and I voted for him in the primary. I’m also very disturbed by the stream of revelations emerging about Sarah Palin.
It occurred to me, though, while watching a few clips of Palin, particularly one where she referred to Hillary’s 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling, that the McCain-Palin ticket is particularly vulnerable, now, to criticism from Hillary Clinton. I think Senator Clinton could really damage the Republican ticket’s prospects by standing up and denouncing Palin base on Palin’s stance on abortion, her extremist views, and, well, pointing out as Colbert did that the Vice-Presidency isn’t the ceiling they were trying to crack.
So what say the good people of the SDMB? Can Hillary steal their thunder? More importantly, will she try?
The last thing Barack Obama wants to see is Hillary Clinton back in the news. Let Biden hanlen Palin. Biden will have a, “You’re no Jack Kennedy” line ready for her in the VP debate.
I disagree. I think Obama is perfectly happy to let the Clintons have as much news as they can get, as long as they are campaigning for him. Obama isn’t a spotlight hog; he’s a pragmatist who wants to get into office. He’ll quite happily give up the headlines if he can get the Oval Office.
Obama himself can’t touch Palin, but Hillary can and probably will do a good job eviscerating her. She’s shown herself to be quite capable of pretty down and dirty politics before, although I don’t know if she still has the staff she did before, and I think she needs them to get talked into it - she doesn’t seem to come by it naturally. And Palin has a lot of vulnerability points that leave McCain open to criticism. Anti-pork? How about Wasilia bacon? Responsibility? How about taking a town with a budget of $5,000,000/yr and leaving it $20,000,000 in debt, having raised the sales tax even to cover food? The Bridge to Nowhere looks like it’s leading somewhere. etc.
I think that Hillary can bring McCain’s judgment here into question for those who honestly haven’t made up their minds. Whether or not it’s true, she can certainly make it look as if this was an impulsive decision made by a man who thought he was losing and wanted to live up to his ‘marick’ image.
Yeah Barack would be unwise to shoo Hillary away. Just ask Al Gore how distancing himself from the Clintons worked in 2000. As long as it appears that she’s on Team Obama, she can do nothing but help.
My wife, who is fiscally more liberal than me and about the same on social issues, said after McCain’s speech last night that she would vote for him if he had picked someone else as VP.
Well, there are several that are basically the same as this one-- as well as half a dozen other on her. To me, it looks like a lot of scared Obama supporters on this MB. And I say that as an Obama supporter myself.
No, John, just people who are seeking understanding of who Sarah Palin is, why McCain would choose her, and how she affects the race. The only fear we have is the same as a McCain supporter’s hope: that she will affect it in McCain’s favor and, with the polls hovering around the 50-50 point, it wouldn’t take much to tip the balance.
Plus the only thing duller than a Democratic convention is a Republican one and when McCain tossed Palin in the shark tank we finally had something interesting to talk about. I mean, Joe Biden? Where’s the fun there?
Well, I’m an Obama supporter, and I’m scared. Less of Palin specifically, and more that the Republicans will once again manage to seize the low info voter and frighten/bs them into voting Republican this year. That they will somehow manage to successfully blame to current problems on (as they said last night) liberal government and the liberal-biased press, rather than firmly on the shoulders of the people who have been controlling things for the past eight years - themselves. That they will once again be able to use symbols to substitute for substance, and convince the middle class voters that the Democrats will raise their taxes, even though for most of them, Obama will lower them.
Yeah, I’m scared. I’m scared of the sheer stupidity of the majority of the American voters.
I think he’s quite fun. The man is hysterical, actually. And I mean intentionally. Same as McCain when he’s on a roll.
Other than their political positions, they’re very similar men (Biden and McCain) in personality, both big extroverts with lots of friends, who love to tell stories and aren’t overly careful with the veracity of the exact details, both usually pretty straightforward as to what they’re thinking at a given time, both capable of changing a position over the long haul (or the short haul in an emergency), both quite capable of shooting themselves in the foot. Very generous men with both tangibles and intangibles.
On the other hand, Obama and Palin bear no resemblence to one another whatsoever except that for the time being, both seem to be able to draw large crowds.
Left him vulnerable? He’s always been more than vulnerable and now maybe a bit more so. But he also has a chance to pull it off.
Part of the dynamic has been the enthusiasm gap. Core Obama supporters were likely to turn out in record numbers and core McCain supporters were at risk of not bothering to vote. He has now revved them up to vote for Palin (and oh him too) and to some degree reassured them that he really is a Right Wing nut job, just like them, who views the world in a us Christians vs them heathens worldview. These are not factors that will reflect in the polls which are without a clue as to how to predict who will actually show up on election day in this particular cycle as it is so different in so many ways from previous ones. But they are important.
The issue is of course if the gains he gets by maximizing his core turn-out will be off-set by equal or greater losses among moderates. (And to a lesser degree by energizing core Obama supporters even more.) And that depends on how well Obama-Biden can educate the middle on just how far extremist Right this ticket has swung - even farther Right, even more partisan, even more of a simplistic and dangerous worldview than Bush has been.
I think that picture will get painted by Obama-Biden well.
I agree with you, however, I have trust that the Obama campaign has laid down a matrix of field offices in every state in the union, and in every congressional district that will gain him the right amount of electoral votes. Legions of volunteers and university and college students are all working to get this man elected. I have seen no large Republican student organizations sweeping through the university scene. I have heard lots about Obama, very little on McCain from the uni’s and colleges. I keep an eye on these things because I really enjoy when young people get involved. This year, they are involved!
Also, in terms of symbols - I see the symbol of Palin resonating with some, but not all women. The staunch pro-life stand will alienate more than you think.
Above all, McCain can do very little to convince anyone with higher than a 10th grade IQ that he will change what Bush built. His biggest problem is not Obama, it’s the aura that he and Bush are buddy, buddy and that electing him is a continuation of big oil, drill baby drill, and let’s all go to WAR. I find that a hard sell for more Americans than not.
Maybe it’s just Palin in comparison to the other Veep threads…