Apologies if this is better suited to a different forum, but I wasn’t really looking for a deep political discussion. Just an expression of opinions. I would’ve asked it as a poll if I could’ve readily come up with questions other than YES or NO.
This morning’s Chicago Trib had an editorial that said something like, [paraphrased]“What you thought of Trump before Mueller is probably your opinion now.”
The more I’ve thought of it, the more I think it is true. Whether you supported or disliked Trump, I haven’t heard/read anything that impresses me as likely to change anyone’s opinion.
Have any of you changed your opinions re: Trump as a result of the Mueller investigation/report?
Do you know anyone whose opinion has changed due to Mueller’s efforts?
Are you aware of any polling data to try to measure this?
What types of people do you think MIGHT have their opinions changed?
With regard to the last question, I was trying to figure if there were some folk who did not feel terribly strongly for or against Trump. Some of those sort of folk might believe there was enough suggestion of wrongdoing to make them disfavor Trump more than before. Or such people might think Trump was wrongly persecuted and feel more favorably disposed towards him. But it doesn’t seem as tho too many folk are in the middle WRT their opinion of Trump.
I readily admit that there are questions that remain unanswered, and I have no idea what efforts will be made in the future.
No, and it seems if you don’t agree or disagree with one stone, you won’t have much of a conversation. The one consistent thing with me is that I can’t stand the CIA, FBI, NSA, or any other alphabet soup lettered names.
Since the Republicans haven’t let it be released, it’s not really likely to change the mind of even the most undecided person. And Trump is blatantly horrible enough that there’s not really anything that* could* be there anyway to change people’s minds. If it turned out he indulged in rape parties or cannibalism it wouldn’t particularly shock me, nor would it turn his supporters against him.
Not seeing any change in approval/disapproval rating. It’s been pretty stable for more than a year. There was a little dip during the government shutdown, but it soon recovered.
Mueller’s report basically says there are a number of places where CONGRESS could charge Trump with Obstruction or other crimes, but refuses to make those judgments.
Trump attempted to destroy the probe (read: obstruct justice) a fairly large number of times, but was unsuccessful because other people refused to comply with his orders.
Trump clearing himself is like saying “Sure, I TRIED to commit murder a lot, but it never worked out like I wanted, so I’m not guilty of any crimes.”
I am anti-Trump but kind of on the outside looking in when it comes to his standing pertaining to investigation. It was extremely demoralizing when he began openly denigrating Mueller’s investigation in the summer of '17 and nothing has come out since to really outdo that nadir in my eyes.
I’ve been taking a wait and see approach. Given what is public, I don’t know why so many are so preoccupied with following every bread crumb. Much that is being presently discussed, while awful and all, reeks of a less uniquely sinister, more mundane political tug of war at this point, and there is a sizable contingent that strikes me as in too deep in their biased pattern finding or conspiratorial musings where the issue of collusion is concerned. While Trump absolutely employed some bad characters on his campaign, I don’t believe the electoral goals of the Russians were in sync with his.
I am not sure how I feel about obstruction; it’s just like, he’s gotten away with it for two years so why would that change now?
For the most part I’m waiting for 2020 or if SDNY turns up anything of a serious criminal nature, and have otherwise given up on caring. I certainly am in favor of this Congress attempting to investigate tax returns, emoluments, other things within reason. I honestly am apathetic toward talk of Mueller testifying before Congress, with regard to the notion of it leading anywhere.
It hasn’t been released yet, so no idea what it actually says. Not sure how anyone’s mind, at this point, would be changed. I was disappointed it wasn’t a smoking gun that could be used against the president directly, but I’m still holding out hope there is stuff in there that can be used against him. But once it’s released and can be assessed, THEN I’ll make a final determination about where I stand on it, as I assume will everyone else.
I don’t think many of Trump’s followers will read the report. Trump and the right-wing media have their alternative narrative of “complete exoneration”, even after the release of the report, as well as the belief that the probe was part of a “deep state coup/conspiracy”. Maybe the live TV testimonies of Mueller and others will have more effect than the report itself.
I think that Trump followers’ worship of their leader is an article of faith that will resist all attempted interventions by reason, rationality and reality. Trump’s “shoot someone on Fifth Avenue” comment was extraordinary, but not hyperbolic.
I don’t think many of his haters will “read the report” either. It’s hundreds of pages long. Are you planning to read the whole thing from beginning to end?
I think that Trump supporters won’t be reading the report because their messiah and his interpreters have told them what’s in it (complete exoneration!) and they don’t need anything more than that.
I think that Trump “haters” won’t read the (whole) report because somebody or another will quote enough of the salient bits at them which pretty flatly say that Trump is a criminal fuck who has escaped prosecution by Mueller only because it ain’t Mueller’s prerogative to prosecute him. Having heard those bits, they’ll nod sagely, say to themselves “Yep, the report conforms with everything else that’s been leaked so far - he’s a criminal fuck who’s only still president because the republicans in congress like crime”. Then, having finished nodding, they’ll go watch Netflix.
Myself I’m in the latter category. The Dope has provided me enough quotes and commentary to nod quite sagely. (Though, full disclosure, I don’t have Netflix)
The report was somewhat opaque in that issues around the DoJ policy that they won’t indict a sitting President meant there wasn’t a dramatic “Mueller indicts Trump for obstruction” conclusion. Mueller, in the report, has laid out for Congress the case for charging obstruction against Trump. If the DoJ didn’t have this policy, then Trump would currently be facing charges of obstruction of justice.
The Mueller probe indicted, convicted or got guilty pleas from 34 people and three companies, including top advisers to President Trump, Russian spies and hackers with ties to the Kremlin. Investigators work from the bottom of a criminal enterprise to the top, charging subordinates and hoping they will flip to provide evidence against people higher up in the chain. This did, however, mean that all these indictments were spread over many months, and perhaps lacked the impact in the public consciousness that they might have had if issued all at once.
Imagine if these 34 indictments were issued on the day the Mueller report was completed, with no Attorney General Barr to delay and obfuscate, and a recommendation of indictment for President Trump?
The impact would clearly have made it harder for Republicans to try and keep a straight face while they’re doing what they’re doing, and perhaps it would have changed the minds of some of the few on the fence, but I’m not convinced it would have had an effect on Trump’s “base”.
The short answer is No.
In fact, pretty much nothing that can be said about Trump will change anyone’s minds. Trump has been brilliant-unprecedently so, in insulating himself from criticism. Just look at his support in the Republican party. No politician in modern history (OK I can’t think of one, perhaps I am wrong) has held onto his own party’s support like Trump. He started out at 90% and it hasn’t changed more than a couple of points since the election. A little thing like a widely anticipated report isn’t going to change that.
Of course, the flip side of his strategy is that he has no hope of turning anyone who doesn’t already support him to his side. I don’t think. But he has a history of surprising everyone. So I could be wrong. But history has shown that no amount of bad news will sway any of his supporters. 3% + or -, but never more than that.
I think things are so polarized now that people won’t even admit their opinions have changed.
But it does seem to me that over the past few days I’ve been seeing more “I’m a Trump supporter, but…” kind of posts. That is heartening, even if it isn’t exactly what I want to see.
My own opinion has a shifted. I’ve always hated Trump, but I wasn’t foaming at the mouth at the idea of impeachment before this week. Now? I’m not going to vote for any Democrat who doesn’t jump on the impeachment by the end of the month. I don’t care if it throws the country in turmoil and leaves us with the limp dick known as Mike Pence. The orange tumor must be lanced right fucking now.