Well done! Just for the sake of being complete, here’s a link to the law at the state website. And kudos to Hanuka Matata as well. It’s always nice to see somebody put forth the effort to cite an argument in full.
So, insofar as there is a differece between the two, it means exactly the opposite of what the Birthers say it means (i.e. the “certificate of live birth” is the one that specifically affirms the person’s birthplace).
Fitting, given that Birtherism is based on Bizarro World logic.
Cite?
I have to ask, because frankly it doesn’t seem that you have learned a blessed thing from all the facts and arguments offered to you.
OK one step at a time— (see above for the Hawaiian citation of state laws)
(a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor,
This easy to understand, you do this and director of health does that but here are the restraints:
(b) provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
YOU, the applicant, can be living OUT SIDE the State of Hawaii, BUT has declared the state as their legal residence. And this has to happen before the child is born in a period of at least ONE year before a birth certificate can be issued.
It says nothing about factually being physically born in the state of Hawaii, but rather if can you (the applicant or parent) show residence for one year in the state.
Accordingly the child could be physically born any where on this earth.
This is state law, I did not write it.
The results is, the Hawaiian birth certificate of Obama is NOT proof positive that he was born in the state of Hawaii. And it makes NO matter if the governor of the state says he reviewed the document or not— the document is NOT proof positive.
So here is what can happen to any woman. You get into Hawaii, rent a shack, get banged up and pregnant by Kenyan national on vacation, the woman then leaves the state for one year, but keeps her residence, delivers the child in Kenya— gets back to Hawaii and says here is my baby, here is my proof of residence in Hawaii for one year (rent payments on the shack) give him a Hawaiian birth certificate; and the director “MUST” by state law hand over the document.
The governor of the state looks at the certificate and says—YEP every thing is in order it is a valid document as to state laws.
Was the child born in Hawaii—NOT AT ALL.
Is this what happened to Obama? It is a massive gaping hole in state laws whereby the certificate is NOT proof positive of physical birth in Hawaii.
This why obama’s attorneys never argued the birth certificate, but rather jurisdiction, court proceedings, legal standing, along with legal maneuvering and delays. But NEVER bring up the Hawaiian state laws, or the birth certificate. They did not want to advertise the gapping hole in Hawaiian state laws to give reasonable doubt. And it seems Obama got his million dollars worth in attorney fees.
Those that say “No doubt obama was born in Hawaii”, have been spoon fed propaganda and are ignorant of Hawaiian state laws, and that you cannot get out of.
That is the point, here is the state law, you read it, apply yourself. You cannot hold obama’s birth certificate, and Hawaiian state statutes and say PROOF, obama was born in Hawaii—as there is a reasonable doubt. You, NOR I, know where Obama was born. And that is the point.
In the case Of McCain—there is NO confusion, it is a straight line to a conclusion with no holes in the road. Two married American parents, dad is on active military duty, the place is USA territory under USA laws and USA authority, place of birth is the USA military base—NO questions, no loop holes, case closed, all the paperwork and the laws are in order.
And McCain is just used as a diversion anyways and is not relevant.
Don
OK one step at a time— (see above for the Hawaiian citation of state laws)
(a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor,
This easy to understand, you do this and director of health does that but here are the restraints:
(b) provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
YOU, the applicant, can be living OUT SIDE the State of Hawaii, BUT has declared the state as their legal residence. And this has to happen before the child is born in a period of at least ONE year before a birth certificate can be issued.
It says nothing about factually being physically born in the state of Hawaii, but rather if can you (the applicant or parent) show residence for one year in the state.
Accordingly the child could be physically born any where on this earth.
This is state law, I did not write it.
The results is, the Hawaiian birth certificate of Obama is NOT proof positive that he was born in the state of Hawaii. And it makes NO matter if the governor of the state says he reviewed the document or not— the document is NOT proof positive.
So here is what can happen to any woman. You get into Hawaii, rent a shack, get banged up and pregnant by Kenyan national on vacation, the woman then leaves the state for one year, but keeps her residence, delivers the child in Kenya— gets back to Hawaii and says here is my baby, here is my proof of residence in Hawaii for one year (rent payments on the shack) give him a Hawaiian birth certificate; and the director “MUST” by state law hand over the document.
The governor of the state looks at the certificate and says—YEP every thing is in order it is a valid document as to state laws.
Was the child born in Hawaii—NOT AT ALL.
Is this what happened to Obama? It is a massive gaping hole in state laws whereby the certificate is NOT proof positive of physical birth in Hawaii.
This why obama’s attorneys never argued the birth certificate, but rather jurisdiction, court proceedings, legal standing, along with legal maneuvering and delays. But NEVER bring up the Hawaiian state laws, or the birth certificate. They did not want to advertise the gapping hole in Hawaiian state laws to give reasonable doubt. And it seems Obama got his million dollars worth in attorney fees.
Those that say “No doubt obama was born in Hawaii”, have been spoon fed propaganda and are ignorant of Hawaiian state laws, and that you cannot get out of.
That is the point, here is the state law, you read it, apply yourself. You cannot hold obama’s birth certificate, and Hawaiian state statutes and say PROOF, obama was born in Hawaii—as there is a reasonable doubt. You, NOR I, know where Obama was born. And that is the point.
In the case Of McCain—there is NO confusion, it is a straight line to a conclusion with no holes in the road. Two married American parents, dad is on active military duty, the place is USA territory under USA laws and USA authority, place of birth is the USA military base—NO questions, no loop holes, case closed, all the paperwork and the laws are in order.
And McCain is just used as a diversion anyways and is not relevant.
Don
Your citation was edited in a misleading way, as pravnik showed. You are citing a law that was passed 20 years after Obama was born. So it does not apply to him. And he is also correct that the certificate specifically states that he was born in Hawaii, which it would not if he was born in Kenya. The idea that Hawaii is required to give any child a birth certificate saying he was born in Hawaii is ridiculous.
oops, I don’t know what happened, how do you get rid of a duplicate post? sorry about that—
and delete this also when you get to it. sorry about the mess.
Don
Your citation was edited in a misleading way, as pravnik showed. You are citing a law that was passed 20 years after Obama was born. So it does not apply to him. And he is also correct that the certificate specifically states that he was born in Hawaii, which it would not if he was born in Kenya.
OK show the 20 year old law at the time obama was born, and use correct citations so it can be found.
Your opion of the law is not relevent.
Don
Let me attempt to explain a simple principle – one so simple that everybody here takes it as a matter of course that need not be stated explicitly:
When you make an assertion, it is your job to come up with the relevant facts.
Get back to us when you understand this concept.
what is this I don’t even
This is not an opinion issue: the law was passed in 1982. It’s a fact that it did not apply before then. And meanwhile you still haven’t responded to a variety of questions. I’d post the law if I could find it, but I’m not sure why I am supposed to do your homework for you.
[[removed edit]]
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
If you click on the ‘previous’ and ‘next’ links, you can see which law came before and after.
Holmes, homework helper
Yes, well there clearly is confusion.
(1) A U.S. military base outside the U.S. is not U.S. territory. (For example, the U.S. base at Guantanamo is not part of U.S. territory, but is part of Cuban territory. A child born there to Cuban parents would be a Cuban citizen, and not a U.S. citizen.)
(2) Admiral McCain’s job is irrelevant.
(3) Senator McCain is a U.S. citizen because he was born to U.S. citizen parents who had resided in the U.S.
Come to think of it, the law that was passed in 1982 is the one that allows certificates to be issued to babies born outside the state of Hawaii. There’s no reason to believe there was a law authorizing those certificates to be issued before 1982. If anything that proves Obama would not have been issued a certificate if he hadn’t been born in Hawaii.
That’s on top of the newspaper announcements and everything else, including the birth certificate that says he was born in Hawaii that’s been certified repeatedly by the state of Hawaii.
Yes I have learned a few good things, and the people here seem reasonable and by far less combative than other places I post.
I don’t mind a few insults, it is fun, and I smile a lot. I think this is an important argument, busting up propaganda on a national level is always a good thing to me. There have some challenges, good writing and well thought out responses. And YES my mind can be changed with more facts please.
Don
Is there a reason you have not answered them?
Unfortunately you’re not giving anyone else reason to believe this. What facts are you looking for?
holmes, the link shows other state regulations, not laws that were superceded by more recent laws.
My training is not to give much credence to news papers, but not much you can do about it, some times that is all you have to go on. Any one can place an add in a news paper. Computer generated copies are a dime a dozen.
It seems to me Obama’s mom was kind of dippy, perhaps not too smart—no insult intended and I’m not trying to hurt her with words. I think her mother gave her some good advice at times, took her in, helped her out, gave her shelter, and was anchor for her in Hawaii when things got bad. But off she went again to another country.
Her mom could have easily funded, and advised, to place a news paper adds no matter where obama was born.
The better argument is going to primary sources of information as state laws.
Don
What training do you have? It looks like you took someone’s word about what that birth certificate law said- or else you left out the part showing it passed in 1982. Am I wrong?
Certainly when I’m not trying to insult a dead person, I say they’re not too smart. I assume you also have a Ph. D. and raised a future president?
Two newspaper ads. And why she would have done this is unclear.
Which is useless unless you read the laws correctly. And you didn’t.
I get hammered with many questions at once, it takes time get to them all.
I would like to see the state laws and regs at the time of obama’s birth, that would be a good argument either way. I have not explored that yet.
Don
Ann Dunham had a PhD in anthropology.