I am wrong for thinking that though. I’m sorry for saying some of my beliefs which I’m changing. People have changed my mind. I’m not going to judge.
The reason I’m changing my mind is because of people telling me they don’t understand why I eat like I do, or why drugs help my adhd and depression out. It bugs me and bugs me a lot when people say, doctors just fill your head up with that stuff so they can pump you up with drugs. They don’t understand all the complicated brain things that cause these problems. So, I know now where gay people are coming from. I was wrong and I’m sorry.
kputt … let’s all reach back and find our happy place:)
OK, couple of questions. Ready?
What do you think it means to be gay?
Do you feel unloved?
Do you feel that this society, with its drive to procreate/partner with someone/otherwise be in a physical heterosexual relationship, is neglecting you or marginalizing you or trying to make you into something you’re not comfortable being?
If people insinuated that there was some inherent shame/lack of character/etc. in being, for example, asexual, do you think it would be a natural response to assert your pride in being who you are? That’s one big reason FOR Gay Pride: “We’re not going to sit down and shut up and be who you want us to be. We are who WE are, and there’s nothing wrong about that.” That’s what it’s saying more than “Hey, we’re queer, and we’re better than you.”
Are you able to expand on #3, or is that getting into stuff you’d prefer to discuss via email (or perhaps only with a therapist … which is perfectly fine. Nobody licensed me, not even my couch;))? You seem to me to be someone who feels … that the experiences you’ve had with psychiatrists and psychologists have been entirely unhelpful and rather detrimental. And that’s something nobody should have to endure, let alone to the extent you’ve noted.
Of course today I’m feeling a wee bit depressed. Mood swings are not a good thing. I can go from a good mood all week to a really sucky mood for no reason at all.
Email’s in the profile (you don’t have one that I can get at). I don’t have a degree in anything, I don’t have a license for anything, let alone therapy or clinical work of some sort. But I do have a pretty good handle on what you’re feeling. Hell, email me for whatever. I’ll even give you a recipe for crackers if you ask for one;)
Thanks, Doc. It seems pretty obvious to me that there are alot of serious obstacles that gay people in this country face in regards to equal rights and overcoming prejudice. The super-quick tendancy to brand people bigots in situations like this (re: the term lifestyle) does the cause more harm than good as I see it. It can create anger, confusion, and hurt feelings in people who may have otherwise been sympathetic and supportive. The term bigot is a pretty strong one, and I sure wish people would be a little less free with such accusations. A bigot is a terrible thing, but so is an improper accusation of bigotry.
Now I’m gonna back out of this thread and wish everyone involved some happiness, peace, and a lifestyle which is both rich and famous . . .
You don’t find it offensive. I do understand context.
I don’t get why some of the gay/bi/lesbian/t et al, declined putting a profile on the Stunning Sodomites site on the basis of the older connotations of sodomite. Yet, then being told that the gay lifestyle has no negative connotations seems quite arrogant as not only I have taken umbrage at that phrase on here, so have others.
Further more, there is taking back a term. While queer isn’t a term I generally use, it is no different than taking back words like spic or nigger. While queer might not hold the same power as the previous two words, I can see how to some that it may be on par. Thus, lifestyle is also in that realm for those of us who see Pat Robertson and his ilk using the term, not to mention articles and other media which use the term as a way to marginalize and minimize us to being either a sideshow or a paraphelia with a good organization and fashion sense.
The usage generally is not innocuous. Especially on this board.
You are more than intelligent enough to get it. I just wonder how you’ve not noticed something that has been prolific since I came out 15 years ago.
To say that one is gay and therefore is living a “gay lifestyle” implies, to me, that the person is choosing to behave and live in certain ways.
And since I reject the notion that gay persons are choosing to be gay, and are therefore choosing to behave in “gay” ways, then I reject the notion of a “gay lifestyle.”
So, while I don’t automatically think “bigot” when I see “gay lifestyle,” the question is definitely raised in my pointy head.
Seems like pretty common usage in many gay publications worldwide. Good luck to you with that, Mockingbird. I’ve tried to be as civil as possible here, presenting my points without resorting to personal insults. Your Nelson Mandella comment in response was pretty harsh. In fact, it has assured that you and I will have no further interaction. I’m sure that you will see this as no great loss, but for whatever little it is worth to you, you could probably achieve much more progress through dialogue and debate if you were to reign in the excessive hostility and bitterness.
Whenever I said it was a lifestyle, I didn’t mean that gays choose to be gay. I don’t know what I meant, but I know that I didn’t mean that gays chose to be gay.
The problem is how hard it is to know what people do mean by some phrasing.
And I know that when I see certain people using a phrase, then I start associating that phrase, however innocuous it may have started out as, with their viewpoints. So, I’ve heard “gay lifestyle” said so often in such a sneering tone, and then coupled with things like “choosing to be gay” or “deviance” that the “lifestyle” thing seems like part of the argument.
I will freely admit that I’m doing that sort of transferrence. But it’s not just me. And many times language usage has to change to account for the connotations of certain words or phrases.
I would just like to say, for the record, that in my life every time someone has said “the gay lifestyle” (and most of the times they have typed it) it has to do with clubbing, promiscuity, lack of morals, etc. The sayer of the phrase usually didn’t know the person in question but felt that the PiQ’s sexuality was enough to know certain things about that person.
I can only assume (well, okay, I know I can’t, but it helps to make things at least somewhat amusing:)) that their own sex lives must be so boring that they resort to thinking about others’ illicit affairs.
to quote iampunha: "every time someone has said “the gay lifestyle” (and most of the times they have typed it) it has to do with clubbing, promiscuity, lack of morals, etc. "
That’s always been my feeling as well. HOWEVER my very bestest best, best friend is gay. Both Mitchey and I are raising little boys, his is almost 9, mine is 7. We both have worries about truck payments, the state of the economy, credit cards. We have parent teacher conferences, disciplinary issues and school programs to attend.
We both have active boys that NEVER seem to be in pants that haven’t miraculously sprung hole or shoes that last longer than three months. We both take our boys to the park, to aquariums and to the movies. We schedule our computer time after they go to bed. we read to them, hug them and clean up their cuts and scrapes.
So where in all this is a “gay lifestyle”? Or perhaps unknowingly we have ALL been living a “gay lifestyle”.
i brought this up when i was branded a bigot for being opposed to dancing on Strom Thurmond’s grave. It didn’t help, because some people are too short sighted to see when they are burning down bridges instead of building them up.
