Has any other drug had a “connoisseur culture” approaching that of alcohol? By that I mean two different varieties of basically the same drug, in the same form, having, say, a 2x order of magnitude or more difference in value, not because of any measurable difference in strength or quality, but because of cultural and status reasons. I’m thinking bottle of 2-buck chuck vs finest
vintage wine, or well whiskey vs high end single malt scotch. I get there is some objective quality difference between high end and low end booze, but even your most fanatical wine connoisseur would not claim there is measurable 100x difference between a test tube of 200 dollar wine and a test tube of 2 dollar wine.
Has any other drug in history had a similar culture? Possibly legalized cannabis is heading that way, but is not there yet AFAIK? There arent high end brands that cost 100x more than the basic stuff at the dispensary?
And while I’m sure modern societies economic systems have driven connoisseur culture to new levels, I don’t think connoisseur culture in booze is a new thing. The wine that was served to kings and aristocratic elites at their fanciest parties was valued at 100x that which was served to the lowliest workers at lunch.
What about cultures that accepted recreational use of other drugs (cannabis? Opium?) and a luxury culture? I’m
Some psychedelic communities will get really fanatical about whether APE or Golden Teachers or Flying Saucers is better, and whether 5-MEO-DMT is better than some other DMT.
But entire industries based on these cultures (which is how I read the OP)? Like tours, cruises, guided visits designed for the kids (like on a brewery tour I went on)?
I don’t know. I’m sure they are out there - the world is a big place - but if so, they are still dwarfed by alcohol-related industries.
I deny the hypothetical. When you are talking wine and beer, the alcohol is secondary in the extreme to “connoisseurs.” It is a food, and therefore judged on everything but the buzz. The difference is less with distilled spirits, but a properly constructed craft cocktail is measurably superior to what Old Earl throws together down at the Dew Drop Inn.
Hunter S. Thompson-type novels certainly do not neglect to mention their huge bags of assorted drugs and the fine points of the experience shooting up hydromorphone versus Heroin and so on…
This. The same is true for tobacco and caffeine products. If you are talking about connoisseurs of the drug aspects of a product, none of those can hold a candle to weed or pills or even smack.
Yes, three drugs come to mind, specifically with respect to India :
Marijuana : there are many recipes, grinding methods, accompanying ghee (fats), fruits and nuts for bhaang (a drink made using marijuana). Bhang has been legal in India since 1000s of years.
Betel Nuts : there are many many varieties of betel nuts - some have effects like drugs. There is a connoisseur culture around them.
Zarda : This is a blend of tobacco and some say opium and precious metals and plant extracts and saffron. There are 100s of related products like Qimam … Since Muslims do not consume alcohol, they have connoisseurism on Zarda and related products (I can say this for some parts of India). Zarda is popular outside of muslim people too.
Hookah (tobacco) - probably has the most variants and connoisseur culture in middle east , India etc etc
(Outside of India) I’ve heard from friends that in some Muslim countries (and I think amongst some Jewish communities) Khat or Qat (or gat) is consumed
There’s no hypothetical to deny. Alcohol in all its forms is a drug, and the “conoisseur culture” around it is just a polite way of pretending it’s more than just a drug. If you remove the drug from the equation, then there are no alcohol-free wine-tastings, no alcohol-free craft beer events, absolutely no 20-year non-alcoholic scotch. All of it is mere window-dressing to legitimize the drug-seeking experience.
And to the OP’s point, cannabis culture is substantially the same. Some of it is about the strength and character of the high, but most of cannabis culture is easily as full of shit as wine culture.
I’d dispute whether that’s the same thing. Some will argue that 5-MeO is superior or inferior, but it’s a distinct drug, it is what it is. Like arguing whether beer or wine is better. It’s a different category.
I recall there once was a perception that different types of blotter LSD had different traits, some people would swear that “flying eyeball” or “window pane” is superior, but those are either just subjective experiences, or the blotter was adulterated with some other analog or chemical.
But is there 100x price difference between the different types? (of whatever those are, magic mushrooms? ) Is there a Balvenie 50-year equivalent of magic mushrooms?
I get (and remember from weed my mispent youth) that there a different varieties of illegal drugs and some are valued more than others (premo skunk versus crappy “diesel” hash) but that is primarily an actual objective strength quality issue IMO rather than a cultural/status thing.
I disagree. I’ve definitely developed a bit of connoisseurship on NA beers, myself, after stopping drinking two years ago. It’s focused around the same sort of qualities that I loved about beer. When I wanted to get smashed, it wasn’t the beer I was hitting (unless that’s all that was around.) Beer was absolutely for the flavor, and, unfortunately, a lot of flavors require alcohol for their full expression, but I love several non-alcoholic beers because they have flavors that I originally liked about beers. Non alcoholic wine has all been terrible, and I’m not even going to mention the NA spirits. But it’s not for lack of intoxicating properties—they just taste like shit.
It’s one thing if you’ve developed a bit of a connoisseurship, but is there a significant connoisseur culture surrounding NA beers? Do you have a peer group that judges you for drinking an O’Doul’s unironically where the discerning NA beer drinker prefers Bud Zero?
Not yet, but the industry is getting better and better. And when I drank beer nobody actually gave a shit when I drank a PBR I ironically. That’s mostly exaggeration or a bunch of newbs who just discovered craft beers pulling that shit. Like seriously, in my many many years of drinking this has not happened once to me. Nobody would bat an eye if I switched up from a Three Floyd’s Dark Lord to a Stella or Old Style, or even if just drank those all night.
The industry is still in its infancy, and there are quite a lot of negative perceptions that still need outgrowing. But it’s absolutely trending in that direction.
NA wine and spirits are in even worse shape because nobody’s really cracked the problem yet. Non-alcoholic wine is grape juice, and non-alcoholic spirits are… I don’t even know. But there are companies working on it because there’s lots of money to be made by the first folks to get it right. There is absolutely a demand.
The whole “any drinker who says they care about anything other than getting drunk is a liar” thing is tired and trite.
Too true,and I think most beer enthusiasts lived in that space for at least a while. I sure did.
You can pay an ungodly sum to drink coffee made from beans that passed through the intestines of a civet, (and that taste like shit, according to my nephew the coffee guy). So i think there’s plenty of “culture” around caffeine, too.
) Is there a Balvenie 50-year equivalent of magic mushrooms?