Because of Bosda now I’m reduced to singing “la la la lalala la” instead of making a meaningful comment.
Thanks a lot.
“The only thing that is constant is change. Except from a vending machine.”
A Buddhist walks up to a hot dog cart and tells the vendor, “Make me one with everything.” He hands the vendor a $20 bill and the vendor hands him a hot dog but no change. The Buddhist asks, “What about my change?”
The vendor replies, “Change comes from within.”
Damn! I’m always a dollar short and thirteen years too late!
I guess nothing has changed. Even the jokes are the same.
#3.
Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!
No, you told it wrong.
It is a little sticky. I’ll try to stay meta. The OP asked about the evolution of this board’s culture, and I listed five factors. One of which involved a board whose membership has overlap with this one, and which occasionally features threads inviting members to visit a thread on this board and interact in a certain fashion. Or what Do Not Taunt said. I’m actually not particularly outraged: I just think it’s relevant to an ATMB thread on the evolution of this board.
To answer the question of others, I believe I have sampled the threads there to a sufficient extent to form my views. I also shared the basis for my views, so the reader could weigh or de-emphasize them accordingly. OTOH, while I think the OP topic is interesting, I’m not too keen on instigating a board war or other sorts of drama. This is this board; that is that board; let a thousand flowers bloom, etc. etc.
I repeat though that the continued evolution of this board is not surprising, not a bad thing, and has multiple causes: I listed ~5; others have been brought up here.
Pjen, I’ve been around for a long time, and I agree that the boards have changed over time, but I don’t see it as the major change that you see. Change is inevitable, and I don’t agree that 15 years ago it was all sweetness and light. Just dig up some of the threads on the 2000 election…
Instead, I would respectfully suggest that your posting style is very much “in your face” on certain issues, such as the death penalty. I think that the style of your posts is very aggressive and likely to generate heat, but not debate.
Your posts combine smugness, self-certainty, and contempt for many Americans and American institutions, as well as for certain views which are widely-held and supported by many in the US and on the SDMB itself. I think that the natural response to your posting style will be very critical and hostile posts.
I no longer bother opening threads you start in GD, because they will be inflammatory, in my opinion, and will cut off reasoned debate right at the start. For example, equating a beloved participant of the civil rights movement with a convicted murderer, and suggesting that they are equivalent? I can’t think of a better way to poison the well right from the start of a thread.
So no, I don’t agree with your thesis.
*Mods: I am trying very hard to stay on the right side of “critique the posts, not the poster” in these comments. I am really focused on the posting style, but I realise that posting style can be a personal matter. I am not trying to critique Pjen as a person. *
I see this as a constructive post.
Concur.
I agree.
Adding my support for Northern Piper’s post.
I agree with this post as well.
I’ll merely add to it that Pjen, I really hope you don’t take this as people beating up on you, but more as constructive criticism. I’ve been where you are and frankly you’ll find it far more rewarding to recognize that perhaps you should modify your behavior rather than complain about how the board is.
In my own experience, Europe is vastly more racist and bigoted when it comes to Muslims and Muslim immigrants than the US and has done a vastly worse job than either the US or, to a lesser extent, Canada at integrating them, but declaring Europeans to be “backward” and “less civilized” doesn’t strike me as a terribly constructive way to promote dialogue and tends to bring about defensiveness on the part of people who otherwise might be willing to listen to reason.
Northern Piper, I know I have a reputation sometimes for a “me too” poster, but…I think this time I can’t help but say it.
Culture-wise, I think this board is pretty much the same as it was. As a non-US poster, I haven’t noticed any particular shifts from pre-Sep11 days. There’s a an acrimonious Left/Right US politics split, but that dates more from the Bush-Gore “stolen election” days (or possibly the Clinton impeachment, before my time), IMO, and has never lessened that I’ve noticed. I don’t find the board any snarkier.
I do think certain forms of racism (“scientific” ones)are more tolerated nowadays than they would have been in, say, the Stormfront-invasion period, and for a while that made posting on colonization/Africa/Global South issues a bit of a pain, but the moderation there has stepped up again, so swings & roundabouts, really.
The partisan stuff was way worse when I joined. For a while after it became clear that there weren’t going to be any WMDs in Iraq, almost every thread would get hijacked into a proxy-argument about the Iraq war. It was kind of impressive how far some posters would stretch to drag in an Iraq debate into unrelated threads.
Granted, there’s still a lot of that (post #22 for example), but I don’t think its anywhere near as bad as it was 2003-2006ish.
MODERATOR COUGHS LOUDLY FOR ATTENTION: You actually quoted my injunction NOT to bring other boards into this discussion. And yet, you’re referencing your past posts that do that, and adding to them. That’s pretty much an underhanded way of circumventing a pretty clear mod instruction. You may take this as a direct Friendly Reminder to cease and desist. If there’s another such effort, there will be an Official Warning.
(I appreciate that the folks who are prominent on that other board have not responded in kind, and ARE following the moderator instructions.)
In my defence I would point out that my style and beliefs have not changed over the last dozen or so years- I still regard the Death Penalty in the way that others in their time regarded Slavery or Apartheid or corporal punishment less than killing (amputations, torture and beatings). It is a moral issue and proponents desrve to hear the practice described for what it is- irrational and inhuman like other human rights abuses that have been corrected over the years.
I do have a fascination with differences between cultures (How do so many countries have social Democrat governments yet thrive against the majoritarian political view in the US, How non US countries survive without the second amendment, why have most advanced countries disposed of the death penalty, why do most other countries manage to survive without imprisoning such a massive percentage of their populatio and so on.
But I am no mindless critic of many US themes- preferring US laws on libel and Free Speech (though aware that many countries remain quite free even with stronger restrictions and greater privacy laws; preferring US legislation on termination of pregnancy where Roe v Wade is clearer than almost any other law; preferrin the US press where fact checking is essential rather than an optional extra.
But I am also aware that many Americans find it very difficult to understand or countenance other countries having different systems, yet seeing them automatically as inferior. I lived in the US through my high school years and university and consequently I am aware of the lack of general non-US news that leads to lowered understanding of other cultures and political systems, even among otherwise well educated people. There is a tendency to assume that US Law and Custom is the bench mark against which other nations and states should be judged, rather than seeing the US system as one among many. It also goes to attitude where as a citizen and resident of smaller and less powerful country in a semi-political block (like the EU) one is aware that matters need to be negotiated and decided by some sort of compromise, rather than assuming that force of economics and military allowing ones own system to be enforced outside the sphere of influence of that country.
That said, I find the methods currently applied to such questioning posts to have a different tenor now to a dozen years ago. I find that interesting!
True - I should have said “is not currently at a peak”, and yes, the Iraq war/Abu Gharib/Guantanomo period was probably the worst of it.