Have mom and dad been lying to us? Biggest fallacy of all time? Is MILK bad for us?

Factual Questions
41

This is no longer the case.
Check out the following site. If you have Adobe you can then read the section on “How the Pricing System Evolved”

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/AIB761/

“From 1968 to about the middle of 1995, the mover was the M-W (or a modified version of it) price—the price of manufacturing grade milk in Minnesota and Wisconsin, where most of the manufacturing grade milk was produced. Early in the 1990’s, USDA decided that the M-W should be replaced. The most common argument put forward for replacing the M-W rested on the relatively small and declining volume of milk being used to compute the price (the thin market argument).The Basic Formula Price (BFP) was introduced in 1995 as a temporary replacement for the M-W.”

Component pricing was introduced in the past year or so taking it even further away from the former pricing system.

The above publication also covers most of the questions raised in the thread about Milk being a Monopoly that seems to have died out a day or two ago (so check it out if you’re interested).

As for the rest of the debate you’re welcome to check out the previous threads on this debate, some may have been moved to Great Debates if you’re in a searching mood.

42

It seems to be universally understood that “milk” used unqualified is referring to cow’s milk.

If drinking milk is “good for you”, why don’t bulls drink it? Humans are the only species that I am aware of who “suckle” from another species.

Is human breast milk available in bottled form? If it were, would you drink it?

It feels a bit “ewwwww” to me, which got me to thinking that if I’m not comfortable drinking the milk of my own species, what the hell am I doing drinking the milk of another species?

43

Speaking as an allergy sufferer…

I’ve been told time and again by well-meaning obnoxious busy-bodies that if only I would quit drinking milk and consuming dairy my allergies would go away. You know, I have actually tried this. Twice I’ve eliminated all dairy for 3 months. Know what? Didn’t help. Just as much itching, sneezing, rashes, digestive upset and phlegm as before. Of course, the anti-milk crusaders don’t like to hear things like that and often flat out tell me I’m lying.

I like milk. It agrees with me. I will continue to eat it until such time as it doesn’t agree with me. On the other hand, I think the latest recommendation I heard - that an adult woman drink at least four glasses a day, in other words, at least a quart, is excessive, even if it’s skim. But that’s personal opinion YMMV.

Now, here’s the scoop - there are many ethnic groups in the world who lose the ability to digest milk at adulthood. It’s a genetic thing. This includes most (although not all - Mongolians seem to be an exception, for instance) Asians and about half the African tribes. The estimate on one of the linked websites that 95% of people of African descent are lactose-intolerant applies to African-Americans, whose ancestory derives mainly from West African. East Africans such as the Masai - who may derive nearly all their protein from the blood and milk of cattle - retain the ability to digest lactose into adulthood.

By far the largest group of people who tolerate lactose into adulthood are Europeans, with the trait being most common in Northern Europe and slightly less common the closer you get to the Mediterranean.

So… if you are genetically blessed with a certain trait milk is not harmful and indeed a useful and nutritious food for life. If you do not have this trait then you should not eat dairy. In areas where the trait is rare (Japan and China, for instance) the native cuisines will be lacking in milk products. Where the trait does exist (India, for instance) the local cooking will have milk products.

The upshot is - if you retain the ability to make lactase (which allows you to digest milk) and you do not have a food allergy to dairy then eat or don’t eat dairy as you please. If you don’t produce lactase you can either stay away from dairy or buy enzyme tablets that let you digest the lactose. If you have a food allergy don’t eat dairy, period.

Even with those who can digest milk - medical problems can arise from consuming too much of anything, including milk and calcium. The fat issue has been done to death.

The issue is another food fad type thing, with an extra push from the rabid vegetarians.

44

“Milk is for babies!”

Does anyone else get told this? I love my milk and nobody is going to convince me otherwise! Especially with a nice piece of chocolate cake, like Guinastasia said.

–Nut

45

“Lao Tzu”: “By the way, i can drink raw milk just fine. It’s processed milk and cheese that causes trouble. My stomach can tell the difference blindfolded.”

This is fascinating, given the tiny differences between raw and processed milk. Amd as far as I know, no one with this skill has ever been documented in the scientific literature. Of course, to really test your stomach’s ability to tell the difference, you would need prepare the raw and processed milk samples in some way so that they would taste the same or administer them by nasogastric tube. If you can find an credible report of someone else with this ability, I’d love to see it. If not, it would be great if you could be the first documented case.

46

Lao Tzu sounds more like an allergy, as phlegm is rich in IgE. You may be an individual with a specific allergy to a milk protein, which will cause the reaction you describe. But in an otherwise non-allergic individual, dairy consumption does not thicken one’s secretions.

Basically I’m a skeptic. From the Greek skepsis, or ‘thought’. I still get angry at the dairy industry when I remember their old ad campaign: “Milk! Nature’s most nearly perfect food!” Outright lies, and they got a lot of heat for it, fortunately. And I think they currently overtout the benefits of milk. I live in Wisconsin, I’ve even got a few cows on my farm, but once I saw firsthand what large herds do to the environment, with the large open air manure pools, I decided not to buy into the dairy industry line.

Even so, their product is not bad for most people, in moderation. Balance, people! Balance is the key!

47

“Yeah” > Actually, the difference between raw and processed milk is not so subtle. One of the changes milk undergoes during pasteurization is that the naturally-present lactase - the enzyme that helps digest lactose - is destroyed by the heating process. This is why many people who are lactose intolerant can eat raw dairy products with no problems. Try it with your lactose-intolerant friends and see.

There are quite a few other changes made to milk during processing, so if you’re thirsting for knowledge (no pun intended), you might find this interesting:
http://www.realmilk.com/abstractsmilk.html

Broomstick > shame on those milk crusaders for not telling you that there are hundreds of other foods which can cause allergic reactions in humans. There are people allergic to: tomatoes, peanuts, wheat, and in my case, shellfish (it inflames my throat and mouth)… I was neighbors with a woman who was couldn’t eat sesame seeds. A hamburger bun would put her into anaphylactic shock, so she had to avoid anything made with them. One day she ate something that had a lot of sesame seeds - and yup, she died.

In your case, if the culprit IS in fact food (as opposed to something else) you can probably discover it through the process of elimination. This is how nutritionists usually do it. It’s tough nowadays because of all the synthetic junk they put in food, like preservatives, colorants, and flavorants - many of which are allergens to certain people.

If you’re still searchin’ for solutions, here are 2 useful sites on food allergies:
The page you’re looking for isn’t available | NIH: National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases
http://www.nutritionfocus.com/nutrition_library/healthy_living/food_allergy.html

Random Factoid: Cheese made from human breast milk is occasionally sold in “specialty markets”. The taste is reported to be like “unwashed feet”. Yum!

“Never tell the truth to those unworthy of it.” – Mark Twain

48

“…so if you’re thirsting for knowledge (no pun intended), you might find this interesting:
http://www.realmilk.com/abstractsmilk.html”

Thanks. It is, indeed, interesting. You can hardly find cites of papers published in the '30s anymore, and cites of papers published before 1920 are even more rare. As far as enhancing knowledge, however, I’m not so sure. I think our understanding of nutrition has advanced quite a bit in the past 60 years.

By the way, where did you get the notion that there is a lot of lactase in raw milk?

49

Thanks for the tip - and the links. But I already knew about a couple of definite food allergies prior to the milk elimination - I did it as part of a series of elimination trials and testing when I was 14-16 years old. About 5 years ago I started having reactions again, despite keeping away from my known allergies, so I did another milk elimination (along with a bunch of others) but I’m still OK with the milk.

Naw… the culprit turned out to be… beans. Lentils, specifically. Which is another peeve I have with the rabid vegans. My food allergies are all to plants. It would be extremely difficult for me to eat a healthy vegetarian diet because so many protein-rich plants are off limits to me, along with some grains (corn and barley) and common fruits and vegetables (oranges and tomatoes).

The irony is that I can eat the major food allergens like dairy, wheat, tree nuts, and seafood. What’s off limits are the “health foods” like corn, beans, and tomatoes. I’ve also been told not to over-expose myself to soy products to avoid developing an allergy to those (soy being one of the few legumes I can still eat) so that sort of kills the soy “milk”, now doesn’t it? Damn shame, too, because I like beans and tofu.

I’m convinced some of these “food X is evil!” things get started because one person (or a small group) has a problem with an item and is so ego-driven they can’t just stop it eating it themselves - they have to go on a crusade to stop everyone else from enjoying it, too. Is this too simple? I mean, I’m horribly allergic to tomatoes but I don’t go around telling everyone they’re poison and try to snatch them from the little fingers of school children who can safely enjoy them. Geez, man, if milk is a problem don’t consume it!

50

I asked the milk question some time ago. I may have been a newbie, but I was no PETA shill. I’m still not.

51

1)Unless, of course, you live in a society heavy on goats or, for that matter, camels.

2)Err. Bulls are of the same species as cows. You meant something else, though, right? I hope?

3)It’s not that rare for one species to suckle off of another species in cases of maternal abandonment. It doesn’t happen every day, but yeah, it happens.

4)I’m not aware of any other species that cook.

I am getting so tired of hearing this on these boards…

When you get sick you’re given antibiotics. When cows get sick they’re given antibiotics. These antibiotics have a very short lifespan and are flushed from a cow’s system within 72 hours or so. If a farmer is so stupid as to dump contaminated milk into his bulk tank he will be found out when the milk is tested at the creamery and be forced to pay for all the milk that must now be dumped. Never mind that IF (can’t stress that ‘if’ enough) the minute remnants of 30ccs of antibiotic make it into a 10,000 gallon tank I sincerely doubt it would have anything resembling adverse affects on anyone. **

Somatic cell counts are a key indicator of the health of a dairy herd. A low count means the animals are well taken care of. A higher count means the dairier had better get going and see what he’s doing wrong; higher counts eat into his paycheck.

52

According to an article from The National Acadamies here, it does seem to be of some concern. The benefits of atibiotics clearly outweigh any foreseeable problems though.
My main concern is that most of the public seem unaware that rBGH is so widely used in milk production. I like Ben and Jerrys take on the whole thing.

Well, think about it. Your dairy products may have been genetically engineered and there are NO national policies (see bottom of CNN article) for the labeling of these products.

“the United Nations food safety organization, Codex Alimentarius, recently refused to approve the use of rBGH.”

53

Regarding the Ben & Jerry’s link - Odd how a manufacturer of junk food is so concerned about health issues!

“Don’t eat me. I have a wife and kids. Eat them.” – Homer Simpson