The term “malicious consent” is you agree to do something even though you know its the wrong thing to do. It generally means you go along with a bad idea because you were forced to do it, all the while knowing something bad will happen because of it.
Like at work. We had a machine that sorts packages that needed a software upgrade. Partly thru the software upgrade the tech was told they needed that machine back ASAP. he said, no, after the upgrade I have to re calibrate the machine which could take up to 30 minutes. They said NO and so he threw up his hands, finished the upgrade, and gave it back to them. Of course without calibration it wasnt sorting well leading to major package sorting problems.
Or in another front, as an electrician we install outlets wherever the customer wants. We charge say $5 an outlet. BUT! We charge maybe $35 to move an outlet when the customer finds its in a bad area or they need another outlet.
So have you ever done this or been a part of it or had it done to you?
Wow. I don’t know what business this is, but 30 minutes downtime to save a host of readily-foreseen and immediately-realized problems … how was that not a no-brainer?
The tech should have said, to the request that the machine was needed back ASAP: “No problem – the software upgrade will be completed in (fudged time estimate to include an extra 30-45 minutes for proper calibration).”
I’ve done it several times over the years as a database developer. Usually while mentally channelling Warner Brothers characters as I did so. Always because a client/boss with more authority than knowledge and insufficient trust in the wisdom of the database developer said “do this anyway”.
I also refused to do malicious consent once when the stakes were so high that my idiot boss’s entire business would likely have tanked if we’d done it his way. Solicited feedback here on the Dope as well as FileMaker-centric boards and mailing lists and presented him with the nearly unanimous response that doing it his way was a recipe for disaster.
I’m a parent and a grandparent so of COURSE I have, possibly a million times. It’s one of the best ways for kids to learn–parent needs to vet the situation to make sure no actual injury or damage will ensue then stand back and watch them fuck things up.
I also worked in call centers so yeah, after you’ve told someone about fifteen times that what they want either won’t work or will just be a terrible idea the best thing to do is to comply and let them sit with their consequences for a while.
I’ve also been married several times so yeah, there too. It’s really the best way to deal with intractible stubbornness.
And yeah, I’ve also had the customers who insisted in doing something which was really, really stupid. In most cases we’ve been able to prove to them during testing that This Other Way was a much better idea, but by that time they already owe us a nice chunk of money for building a pile of trash. And there are consulting firms out there whose whole business model is based on “the customer is always right and ours tend to be stupid (I mean, anybody who believes a 22yo has years of experience in consulting… :p)”.
In terms of abusive teachers, yeah–I give my 8-year-old students tests that last for three hours without food or water breaks, because state law requires me to do so. This year they added a thrice-annual math test that doesn’t align with our district’s pacing guide, so I end up testing kids (for example) on two-step three-digit subtraction problems a month before we’ve studied how to solve them.
I’ve been a consultant (and family member…and friend…and casual acquaintance of quite a few people) for many years. I do this CONSTANTLY. There’s a personal rule I have: I will insist that I explain the situation, along with the potential bad results of the wrong decision. I will do this ONCE. Sometimes I have to be loud and rude to do this, but I then abide by the decision without further comment. I then try my best not to say, “I warned you.” Sometimes I succeed.
This frustrates the hell out of a lot of people, who often accuse me of being passive-aggressive. It’s just that I decided long ago not to waste time arguing with people who have made up their minds. I’ll say, “If you do A, the most likely thing to happen is B…and I can tell you from experience that you’re not going to like it. Now, what do you want to do?”
How the fuck is this even legal??? :eek: No eight year old kid can possibly sit still and concentrate for 3 hours. I can barely do it as an adult! The world has gotten more fucked up than I thought…
At first I couldn’t find any example, but I just remember one. It was long ago, when I was working in accountancy. My boss, not an accountant, was unhappy with the way I was doing things, and despite my objections, ordered me to do them in another way (I honestly can’t remember what it was about, so I’d be unable to be more specific). At the end of the quarter, things were seriously fucked up, and the central accountancy department called him about it. He called me in his office for a serious reprimand. My protestations that it was the predictable result of his orders and my “I told you so” fell on totally deaf ears. He wouldn’t listen and basically told me to shut up and fix my mess. I was young at the time and was extraordinarily pissed at the unfairness of all this.
The strange part is that he was one of the best boss I ever had, not prone to not take responsibility for his decisions, throw his subordinates under the bus or cover his ass, which would be the most obvious explanation. Thinking of it now, I guess he just didn’t believe me and thought that I was trying to shift the blame on him.
Right? And people think I’m nuts for planning on homeschooling when grandkids come along.
I’ve done malicious consent in the past, but experience has taught me that when I’m certain I’m right it’s because I am. So now I’m that guy who will bow out when he sees Teh Stupid is about to prevail.
There’s a subreddit for stories like this called MaliciousCompliance. Some great stories there.
I have one from a job I did many years ago. I was computer support and programming for a county 911 agency that supported all of the police and fire departments in the entire county. One tiny podunk city police chief once got in trouble for something (I don’t remember what) and asked us to print out all of his incident histories for the past five years. He wanted the full details on all of them, and to also include all cases where his department assisted another city. We warned him it would be several BOXES of paper, but he insisted.
A week later we delivered to his office, three hand-cart stacks of boxes of paper, about 12 boxes in total. He didn’t say a word. A few months later I happened to have to go there to fix a terminal and noticed the boxes still where we left them, untouched. (I believe our agency did bill him for that.)
I can only think of one minor example from my life. I used to work at a healthcare organization, where a research department had this badly designed Access database they used for some project. Since it was not really designed with multi-user use in mind, it was always getting locked or otherwise boobed up. As a support guy, I’d frequently have to go and resolve some annoying issue with it, which I hated because my team officially didn’t support Access databases.
One day there was some issue with the database, which I fielded. I emailed the user that I’d look into it and run a “Compact and Repair”, which is a standard Access tool that frees up space and resolves issues like persistent locks. One of the higher ups on the email chain flipped out, saying something to the effect of, “Whaddya mean Compact and Repair?! Repair what?! Our data better not be messed up! I want that database!”
OK, bud, here you go. Database was zipped up, sent to the users, and no longer my problem.
Curious how malicious compliance is treated in the military. Can you be court-martialed for obeying an order in a way that technically fits the order but is obviously intended to sabotage things?
Working for a grocery chain, policy required a thoroughly over-the-top amount of paperwork when a staff member bought anything. We’re talking buy a chocolate bar at break, and you didn’t just have to buy it from a colleague and maybe keep the receipt til the end of the shift like other places I’ve worked, you had to fill out a form, which took 5 minutes of your 20 minute break, which were all stored in a folder under the counter. It was supposed to be a loss-prevention thing, but it was just a waste of everyone’s time.
A few months after I started, the manager drew the attention of the regional management (due to incompetence on the soon-to-be-ex manager’s part). This meant that 2 or 3 shifts a week, we’d have a bunch of area managers show up to talk to him, who would inevitably just go to grab some gum or something while they were there. Cue me with a virtuous expression, the folder of staff purchases, and a total dedication to the rules.
The first few times I got an ‘Oh yes, well done! Hahah, Yes, it’s an important form,we all have to fill it out!’ pat on the head response.
By the fifth or so time I’d made sure the area manager filled in his name legibly, oh, and can I just get the receipt number sir? And do you have the accurate time please sir, I think our clock’s a few minutes out… he suddenly notice my tiny tiny smirk, and declared that he didn’t really think they should have to fill out the form yet again. Cue an innocent expression and ‘Oh, isn’t it important to do all this paperwork sir? They told me it was’.
In my experience in the nuclear Navy, yes, you absolutely can.
Navy nuclear operators are trained to question any order they know will cause damage to the engineering plant or violate Reactor Plant Manual procedures. If they follow an order blindly that they should have known violates procedures, they will get in trouble as well (along with the officer giving the order). The Navy doesn’t want unthinking automatons; they want well-trained crew members who know what they’re doing.
ETA: The concept of “malicious compliance” was actually brought up explicitly during my nuclear training (at Nuclear Power School and Nuclear Prototype), along with the fact that it was a Bad Thing.
In aeronautics, it can get you killed. In medicine, it can get someone else killed. Doesn’t totally prevent it in either case.
After having the discussion about the efforts aviation has made to meet the problem, I was walking through an airport one day when I was checked by the pilot in front of me slowing down. No problems, that happens when you are walking through a crowd. Then I noticed that he was a single-stripe pilot who had slowed down so as not to overtake his senior, a double-stripe pilot. Who had slowed down so as not to overtake his senior, a triple-stripe pilot, who had slowed down to look at a liquor store. As I overtook the group, it occurred to me that the junior in that airline was still going to have trouble explaining to his senior that they were lined up on the wrong runway, or similar.
I recall that something like this did in fact cause a fatal crash decades ago. Some Korean airline 747 in which the Korean culture didn’t allow the subordinate to contradict the captain’s incorrect and fatal instructions.