I’m sorry about your wife’s claustrophobia and panic attacks. I’m about to ask some questions that will seem dismissive, so let me apologize in advance for that, and say that I not only do I believe your wife’s issues can be completely, undeniably real, I have some insight into physical manifestations of anxiety myself, having been prescribed propranolol for heart palpitations that aren’t the result of any purely physiological problem but rather my own anxiety issues. So, all sympathy to your wife.
Now for some probing questions - which I think are appropriate because Covid-19 is a societal problem and only by pulling together as a society will we defeat it.
Is your wife being treated for her anxiety by a medical professional, and has that professional counseled her to go maskless?
Has she been advised that not only should she go without a mask, but there is no need to try to avoid public spaces (As opposed to letting another family member go to the grocery store, for example)?
If a professional has advised her that she should indeed go wherever she desires in public, without a mask, was there any discussion of why this makes sense, public-health wise? Did anyone question the doctor as to how it is more important for your wife to go to public spaces than to protect the health of other members of the community?
Has her treatment plan included discussion of any ways to reduce her anxiety such that she’d be able to function while wearing a mask? (Such treatment could include anything from CBT to yoga to breathing exercises to propranolol to - and I’m not a professional, I am NOT saying this is a good idea - benzodiazepines.)
The CDC recommendations you reference seem to say that no one should wear a mask in public if they would be unable to remove it in the event of mask-induced breathing problems. For example, children under two or someone who passes out. Has your wife or her doctor affirmed that she indeed fits into this risk category - as in, if she goes out wearing a mask and feels uncontrollable anxiety, she’ll be reduced to a state whereby she can’t take the mask off? If so, how do you know this?
I know these questions are kind of intrusive, but I’m not sure your apparent attitude of “hey, my wife should go wherever the hell she pleases without a mask and it’s none of your business” is appropriate given the communal nature of the danger we all face. I am all for personal freedom and I don’t give a shit what people do as long as it doesn’t adversely infringe on the public’s right to health and safety. But I am not yet convinced that your wife’s right to do whatever she wants, without wearing a mask, outweighs public health considerations.
I’m with you in all of these. Yes, if I knew exactly what was available and exactly where each item was, I would follow the directional arrows. But i can’t even go back an aisle from the front of the store. Looping around again is a BIG loop, and I’m supposed l dubious it makes anyone safer for me to extend my roaming that much.
But I’ll try to minimize any backwards movements, and to stay away from other shoppers.
They keep saying that the masks protect them and ignire the fact that the masks are supposed to protect others and the vents basically get rid of that protection.
Sorry psychobunny, I don’t understand. What do you mean by masks with vents? You mean actual holes that are open to the air? What would that achieve (for anyone?). Like raventhief, I have N95/FFP2 masks with ‘vents’ with filters behind them. Are you referring to something different?
Some masks have outgoing vents that make it easy to breathe. I don’t think they filter the outgoing air, only the incoming air. I think they’re mostly used for construction and such, where you don’t want to inhale whatever your sander is spewing out.
They are terrible for these times, because they don’t protect anyone if you’re sick. However, you could put a surgical mast over that mask and you’d be fine, I think.
One thing about masks and directional arrows are that they suck and make everything harder, and thus serve as a good reminder to go out less and get home quickly.
I wear a mask, no flack. I also follow the arrows, because I love following rules.
Heh. Just last night I came across a YouTube video of an “impossible maze” in Roller Coaster Tycoon 2. It was just a straight path with a series of left pockets but the simple path-picking algorithm used couldn’t solve it without a long series of low probability decisions. The same path with right pockets worked fine. Video.
They did something like that with our faculty parking lot a few years back - repainted all the slots, put in traffic flow arrows…and didn’t notice that there was now no way to exit the middle row, as both arrows indicated opposite directions, both in.
Took them a month and me publicly laughing about them at faculty meetings to get it fixed.
I haven’t experienced any personally, but a friend who works in a Triangle-area Whole Foods has reported increasing levels of hostility from customers regarding mask-wearing and social distancing. The one incident I’ve personally witnessed took place in a Harris Teeter prior to any mask-wearing requirements; a masked customer blew up at an assistant manager for not kicking an unmasked customer out of the store.
I was in a Raleigh-area Harris Teeter this past weekend; they still don’t have any kind of floor or aisle markings aside from social distancing lines at the registers. They do have oversized aisles compared to other grocery stores in the area that use the markings though (Publix, Whole Foods). Surprisingly, our local Sprouts doesn’t use directional markings, even though their aisles are so cramped that two people have trouble passing each other. Even though aisle markings are a pain if you forget something, I don’t mind following them to get to what I need – I figure that I need the exercise.
I live in a purplish part of North Carolina, and work in a blazing red part of the state. As I mentioned in the maskhole thread, corporate policy states that everyone needs to wear a mask in common areas, or if work stations are closer than social distancing guidelines allow. People who work in the office are great about following this, even to the extent of enthusiastically collecting cloth masks. People in the warehouse and production areas don’t give a rat’s behind, which has led to our current situation in which our first positive case was sharing an office with a fellow who refuses to wear a mask. I’m expecting to receive some hostility the next time I’m back at work, since I’m planning to post a sign next to my office door asking folks who are unable to wear a mask to refrain from entering since I share a home with a person in a high-risk category. (Hey, if people can use their health as a reason for not wearing a mask, I figure I can use the health of a loved one to enforce some social distancing.)
I forgot my mask one day and couldn’t really drive home to get it. Trying to be a responsible person i went to CVS to buy one. Pulled my shirt up over my face when i entered the store. Which, while hardly ideal, shows I’m trying.
The cashier said they were going to ask me to leave until they saw i was buying a mask.
The masks with vents are designed to filter out dust particles to protect the wearer. The vents were added to make it easier to breathe out since they were designed only to keep contaminants from being breathed in. Because the vents actually direct a more concentrated outflow of air through them, they do not provide protection to other people. A lot of people want to wear them because they make it easier to breathe out because there is less outflow obstruction. You see them in a lot of commercial ( as opposed to medical) N 95 masks.
Most doctor groups have come out against masks with valves. It is hard to link on my phone but a quick google search shows many articles describing the problem. The Mayo Clinic, among other places, has deemed them unacceptable for their mandatory mask rule.
A mandate from the mayor of Indianapolis went into effect for everyone over 4 years old to wear on “inside any public building,” last July 9, and people not complying can be detained by the police, arrested and fined or given community service.
Any business I’ve gone into since the time the mandate was announced (I think July 5) has had signs up reminding people. I have not witnessed attempts at non-compliance. I have even seen a few of the large stores providing masks.
A couple of places I’ve been to have sanitizer just inside the door, and require you to use it (per posted sign), and I have not seen non-compliance, although there is no mandate.
A statewide mandate went into effect recently, but since the city effect had me already masking everywhere, I don’t actually remember the date of the statewide mandate.
Honestly, I can’t believe how compliant everyone has been, but they’ve been remarkable. I think Indiana’s cases are still up since reopening, but that may be due to testing. I don’t think deaths or hospital admissions are up significantly, particularly compared to other states.
The preschool where I work is reopening next week, and we are taking every single kid’s temperature before they can enter the building. Also, any kid who develops a runny nose or cough gets sent to the “sick room,” and must be picked up ASAP, as in a parent drops everything and comes (and they have to sign something to that effect when they enroll). The kid can’t come back until they symptom has been gone for 24-hrs (yes, we are aware that parents give OTC medicine and lie), or a doctor has certified that the symptom is the result of a non-contagion, such as asthma, allergies, et al.
As a fellow Hoosier, not living in Indianapolis, I can tell you that the statewide mandate went into effect July 27.
Not wearing a mask was originally going to be a misdemeanor, but Gov. Holcomb backed off of that. So now the mandate has no real teeth. That said, I am seeing a pretty good level of compliance so far. It helps that most of the stores are mandating masks as well. For awhile, people were swearing they would boycott any store that required masks, but it’s getting a lot harder to do that and still have someplace to shop!
Despite the arguments and fights getting all the publicity, I think most people just want to get their shopping done and go home, so they are going along with the rules, even if they do so grudgingly. I haven’t seen any confrontations or hostility in person, although I still see a fair amount of grumbling on social media. One guy on Facebook, who I eventually unfriended due to his comments about other matters, was raving a lot about how the governor was destroying his chances at re-election by issuing this fascist mask order.
My wife was a teacher, but retired last year. I have never been so glad about that as I am right now.
The opposite here where I live. We’ve been required to wear masks both at work and going anywhere (store, restaurant, etc), and I haven’t seen anyone bucking that or complaining about it, personally. At most I’ve seen people gently reminding others that they need to have a mask on, and this generally taken with chagrin from the person not wearing one, as they go back to their car or whatever to grab a mask…or are given on, as businesses now seem to have access to at least some surgical masks they can hand out.
North Texas here. Mandatory mask order in effect, but it has no teeth. Our lovely governor has decided nobody should go to jail over not complying with city/county/state orders, so we can mandate stores to require masks and fine them heavily, but can’t force customers to comply. And my store won’t be confrontational.
Mask compliance is therfore sketchy. Many wear masks, but some of them just “wear” a mask. Exposed noses are common, and exposed mouths sometimes. The worst are the employees who feel they don’t require a mask if customers aren’t in the store.
I haven’t witnessed any hostility per se, maybe a bit of grumpiness. I did hear about an incident with our security guard. My second-hand description of the event is as follows.
The guard was outside near the door, the customer was walking by, but the guard wasn’t watching the customer. He turned to enter the store and the customer turned to him and asked why the guard was following him. “I’m not, I’m just going inside.” So the guard ducks in the exit door while the customer walks around. When he enters the store, he continues to accuse the guard of following him and starts hurling expletives. The guard didn’t even say anything to him about not wearing a mask, the customer was apparently expecting a confrontation and attacked it head on. Anyway, the customer continued inside and completed his shopping.
I told the guard he should have radioed for a manager. He shouldn’t have to put up with abuse.
I have a neighbor who complained to my dad about going to Home Depot and them wanting him to wear a mask. I’ve got a Trumper on the other side, so he’s probably the same way.
That’s pretty much what my doctor’s office did. “We will give you a mask to wear, please take yours off and use ours.” Of you are wearing a surgical mask, they let you keep it, but I had to take off the cloth one I was wearing.
Are you going to explain why you don’t wear a mask when indoors, unless the owner requires it?
Is it because you hate Trump and want to screw up his chances for re-election? Because I don’t like the guy, but I’m still hoping we get this disease under control sooner rather than later, for example. Is it something else?
Just to clarify, we don’t make patients change from their cloth masks in the office but we will provide a disposable mask if they don’t have one or if they have one that we feel is ineffective (such as those with vents/valves).
@Mallard and @SCAdian, do any of the points in the article linked below convince to you wear a mask or stay away from mask situations if you can’t wear one?
We re-opened three weeks ago after being closed for four months. The city has required several things to allow us to remain open, including redesigning the entry process, requiring advance ticketing with timed reservations, and of course, masks.
The vast majority of our guests are understanding of the need for these rules and happily comply, but there’s that small percentage who, like the shopper in Irishman’s story, show up with a chip on their shoulder and go out of their way to be difficult. People try to lawyer us with arguments about why we can’t force them to wear a mask, or claim they have some vague medical condition that prohibits it. We require a doctor’s note, and give no leeway if they don’t have one. We’re always excruciatingly polite and tell people we’ll gladly refund their ticket if they choose not to enter, but entering maskless is not an option. People have grumbled and argued, but it’s never escalated to even a shouting match, much less a fistfight.
Once inside, our security team takes over, and anybody who needs to be “reminded” to wear their mask three times is ejected without a refund. This has happened several times, but again, nobody has gotten violent over it.
What has surprised me the most, though, is how many people are completely oblivious to others’ personal space. We have pavement markings 8 feet apart in the entry queue, and signs everywhere about social distancing, but still people crowd up to the next person in line, or let their kids run all over the place, including right into other people.
Again, 99%+ are nice about it when we remind them to follow the rules. And even under normal circumstances at least 1% of people are jerks anyway, so I guess we’re doing pretty well.
