Having a 1600 on your SATs and a lawyer doesn't make you God.

The BBQ Pit
41

What do you mean by ‘doing the daily work’? If it’s 40% of the work, I assume it’s actually producing something gradabe, in which case it’s reasonable to require someone to do it.

But some places just require everyone to turn up. If I’ve learnt all about x in my spare time because it was interesting, and can ace the test, then sitting in a class every day for 2 hours listening to someone reading out of a textbook I’ve read doesn’t teach me anything but that the system can suck.

OTOH, some pounding in is necessary. I taught myself half of a maths A-level, and did fine, but if I’d been forced to do more examples I’d remember it better now. But before that I had to sit through GCSE where a far as I can remember I learnt precisely nothing.

42

Always nice to see another member of the younger generation try to escape all personal responsibility with mommy and daddy’s money/help. :rolleyes:

43

Stick to the political mis-analysis. Your legal conclusions are way off. Although attending law school would help with the excess of free time and citation issues repeatedly presented.

The letter is most likely not a “unenforceable” contract of adhesion. Further not every contract between parties of unequal bargining power is a contract of adhesion. The courts will very rarely find a contract to be unenforcable under these grounds- usually only under exception circumstances with implict or explict public policy concerns will it do so.

Cite (suitability plain english):

http://www.ssrn.com/update/lsn/cyberspace/lessons/contr03.html

Other cites which are publically available which touch on this issue:

http://www.gtlaw.com/pub/alerts/2003/scharlatr_01.asp

http://dictionary.law.com/definition2.asp?selected=2325&bold=||||

http://subscript.bna.com/SAMPLES/ctl.nsf/0/e7ad8bcb5cf1a6f685256ce10076ebc8?OpenDocument

44

The latest word is that he will not be attending UNC, at least not this semester:

http://newsobserver.com/front/story/2802786p-2590865c.html

Nightime – I actually agree with some of your points. It’s entirely possible that the guy may have learned more starting up his software company than he would have sitting in class – but that doesn’t change the fact that he made his choices and then refused to accept the consequences. If he wants formal educational qualifications, he has the responsibility to play by the formal education rules, which are fairly clear in this case: show up for class and keep your grades up like everybody else. If he doesn’t, he can blow off school as much as he likes and more power to him. But he can’t have it both ways.

45

I swear we live in a nation of victims.

46

Mr. Raftery, aka Fierce English Teacher, January 4 or so, 1977: “Around this time every year I hear a lot about ‘senior slump.’ I don’t know what that is; some posture problem I suppose [pause for laughter from the assembled senior students, which doesn’t come]. I had a student three or four years back who thought he was pretty hot stuff. He’d gotten into Princeton and didn’t think he had to work in my class. [Pause for effect.] He got a C- in my class. And Princeton said no, thanks, to him.”

So if Mr. Raftery was correct, and sorry but I have no further cites, there’s a history of this sort of thing dating back to the middle 1970s at least.

47

He’s white. You happy now? Do I get to feel disenfranchised now cause hes white? Put your race card back in the deck so you can deal it out later and stop being an ass. :rolleyes:

48

What’s your damage county? Why does his color or athletic ability matter? If you’ve got some sort of backwoods logic to add to the situation, come out and say it, don’t lurk around the thread throwing out little gems that somehow, someone is actually supposed to care about and take seriously.

49

I totally disagree with having to spend hours on busy work that is a waste of my time and existence, when I know the material and do well on tests.

Busy work is intended to reinforce material that one needs to learn. If its learned, what’s the problem?

I’m wasn’t a good student. I’m wasn’t a good essay writer or project speaker. Never did a lick of homework. But I learned the material and was a good TEST taker. That’s what works best with my brain. Why should I be punished for learning faster than other students and needing to put less effort into it? Being punished for being too smart just sucks.

I wasn’t a good athlete and I wasn’t into the social aspects of school because I was picked on. All I had was my intellect to get me through until I could blossom in college.

I am proud of getting a good, solid public education in an advanced program (International Baccalaureate). I am (yes, snidely) pleased to have shocked teachers that gave me Cs for my lack of interest by receiving high IB test scores.

But I resent people who want to take away test scores as a measure. That’s all I had to show for myself, and I think it DID show something positive.

Well, to be honest, I had 150 hours of community service and very high achievement in the art program… But in most schools, that’s no match for athletic ability or being president of a club.

I got through a college (Guilford) in three years, I went through grad school right after (UNC! ::waves::), both as a B student, and got the job I wanted (librarian), and am a very happy contributing member of society.

Don’t take that away from me just because I didn’t “fit in” to what a good student is supposed to be. Everyone learns differently.

That said…the student in the OP made a huge mistake. I knew damn well the burden of what I was doing and how it could hurt me. He should have learned that lesson before this happened, it sure sucks to be learning it now.

50

[sub]Must…resist…urge…to…make…fun…of…typo…[/sub]

51

Rysler,

The thing people are forgetting is that if he hadn’t gone to class and merely showed up and aced tests, his GPA would’ve been fine, for the most part. Unless a teacher is a stickler for attendance, if the kid is really that smart and doesn’t need to “waste his time” in class, it would’ve been reflected on his test scores.

Now. If his grades suffered due to his teacher’s strict attendance policies, then he deserved to fail, if those policies were outlined in the beginning of class, which they most likely were. He failed to live up to his end of the bargain, therefore he doesn’t deserve what he would’ve gotten out of it, had he (a decent grade).

If his poor grades were due to skipping tests and assigments, then he also deserves the poor grade, because he didn’t live up to his half of the bargain in that respect. It’s a pretty shitty attitude to have to think you’re “above” school, and if you have that sort of attitude, frankly, you don’t deserve to go to college.

I think it’s pretty common knowledge that a college can revoke your acceptance if you tank your senior year. Anyone who seriously applies for college knows this. So this kid knowingly renigged on his end of the bargain between himself and the college and is trying to weasle his way out of the mess he made through litigations. The school gave him a chance to explain himself, he copped an attitude.

What the hell is happening to the concept of “personal responsibility”?

52

That’s the biggest load of crap I’ve heard all day. There’s this thing called WORK ETHIC. You know, where it’s your job to show up everyday and give 100%? Maybe you haven’t heard of that, and that kid probably hasn’t either. If UNC doesn’t want a person who can’t do the one job you HAVE to do from 5-18 years of age then screw the little whiney bastard. All he had to do was show up to class and do his “trivial” homework and he couldn’t do it.

53

[hijack]Hey Rysler, I went to Guilford! (Class of '86). What, was the patented Guilford 5-year plan not good enough for you?[/hijack]

As for the kid in the OP, I’m feeling sorry for him. But he should have known he needed to do actual work senior year. I don’t think the problem is how he learns. Obviously, he did well enough in his first 3 years to manage to graduate with a 3.5, even though he slacked off in his senior year. If he could do that, then I don’t think it’s his learning style that’s the problem. It seems more like he decided he was in at UNC so why bother.

54

OOoooo, hey Ceejaytee! Fight, fight, inner light! I’m class of '00.

I just agreed with lezlers. And found her post reasonably presented. I feel faint.

And “Work Ethic” is bullshit. To me, “Work Ethic” means doing a good job. I do a damn good job. I excel. That has nothing to do with the amount of time I put into something.

I’ve been working consistently since I was 16. I do well at work. I don’t do well at school. Its a painful chore that prevents me from working.

I agree that the kid must have tried really really hard to fail high school classes, if he’s that smart. He should be punished. Yes. Totally.

But don’t punish him by devaluing his SAT scores. They’re, apparently, all he’s got going in his favor.

55

work ethic
n.
A set of values based on the moral virtues of hard work and diligence.

That isn’t just doing a “good job.” A good work ethic is reflective of a persons personality. Almost anyone can go through high school and do a “good job” but a work ethic is something that you learn and discipline yourself to have. I’d much rather have an employee that had a 3.0 with a strong work ethic than a person with a 4.0 that just gets the job done and shows up when they feel like it.

56

That’s not an entirely fair comparison. If I’m being paid to do something, then it’s good to do it to the best of my ability. But if I’ve done it, and no-one’ll let me do something else, then showing up everyday for appearances is so much crap. Yeah, often you have to play that game, but it’s not like very vertuous.

OK, this kid didn’t work as hard as he could have done if his GPA dropped like that. Maybe he should be punished for that. But you can’t say everyone should work hard even if it doesn’t do them or anyone else any good.

57

Uh, thanks. I think. :dubious:

58

What puzzles me is that I find it hard to believe the kid wouldn’t have been accepted had he applied with 1600 SATs and a 3.5 GPA in the first place. Does UNC have that many really good applicants that they’re turning down a B+ student with 1600 SATs? And if they would have taken him with those qualifications to begin with, on what basis are they turning him down now?

Don’t get me wrong. The kid sounds a bit arrogant, and all he has to do is put in one year at another school and transfer in to UNC, so the lawsuit is rather silly. But it does seem strange to me that they denied admittance to him at all.

BTW, on the other issue, I’m sorry, but I don’t see the point of mandatory attendance requirements. Schools are there to put information into minds. If the kid ends up with that information (and with 1600 SATs, it’s a good bet that in this case he did! Calling SATs meaningless is silly - they don’t test everything, but they’re as good an indicator of academic knowledge as we’ve got, and yes, I understand that some people do badly on tests. Sorry about that, but what do you suggest instead?) why do we care whether he was in class or not?

59

** AvhHines **
“What puzzles me is that I find it hard to believe the kid wouldn’t have been accepted had he applied with 1600 SATs and a 3.5 GPA in the first place. Does UNC have that many really good applicants that they’re turning down a B+ student with 1600 SATs? And if they would have taken him with those qualifications to begin with, on what basis are they turning him down now?”

He was a 3.8 student. He had to keep his grades around the same level according to UNC to be accepted. Doing the math, he got a 1.4 his last semester. A 1.4!!! If he took 5 classes, thats 3 D’s and 2 C’s. Sounds to me like he flat out didnt meet the requirement.

** AvhHines **
“BTW, on the other issue, I’m sorry, but I don’t see the point of mandatory attendance requirements. Schools are there to put information into minds. If the kid ends up with that information (and with 1600 SATs, it’s a good bet that in this case he did!”

We must have vastly different opinions on what school is for. If all you got out of high school is what you read out of your books then I feel extremely sorry for you. School is so much more than learning from a book. People like you feeling that kids should be able to do whatever they want when they want is probably why we have such a problem of irresponsible, undiciplined, disrespectful kids these days. From age whatever to 18 it is their JOB to go to school. You let your kid do whatever the hell he/she wants, and I’ll make damn sure my kid is at school everyday, and we’ll see how each turns out. :slight_smile:

60

I disagree with your first statement. Getting a 1600 on the SAT’s means he’s very good at taking the SAT’s. It does not make him a good student, or hard worker. What I really hate about the SAT’s is that it does NOT cover material you are working on in High School, after all if it did, you wouldn’t have to waste a rediculous amount of time studying for it, taking special classes to prepare, and getting books about it. I don’t think its a reflection of a person’s academic skills- if it were, we wouldn’t need to STUDY for it.