Should a kid have a job during the school year?

Great Debates
1

Our youngest son (15) just got a summer job, his first real job. He also wants to get a permanent job during the school year. My wife & I have been discussing this, and debating the pros and cons of him working.We Compared what happened with the others, and even ourselves when we were teens.
(The question again, “Should a kid have a job during the school year?”)
Here are the arguments we came up with:

*Yes, a job teaches responsibility
*Yes, it will give him experience
*Yes, it will prepare him for the adult world
*Yes, it will round him out as a person
*Yes, it will give him spending money

**NO, because a job will interfere with his school work
**No, because he’ll end up working all his life anyway, why join the rat race when he doesn’t have to yet.
**No, the chump change Ronald McDonald will give you isn’t worth a lower grade average. I’ve seen it before, this is what happens!

Of course, my home being a dictatorship (and I’m head dick!:p) I have the final say. And right now I say, No job during school! Work your ass off during the summer, but the rest of the year is for concentrating on your studies!
Can anyone persude me I’m wrong about this? I am open to any arguments that are better than “that’s not fair” which is his argument.

2

I had a part-time job at McDonald’s all through high school. Unlike your son, getting a job was not my idea- it was my dad’s. I only did it because I didn’t want to volunteer again- I worked at a day care center and it was a lot of work to not be paid for.

Anyway, I’m 22 now, and I am glad I worked. Your pro-job arguments are good ones, and are all true. I would also add that it gives him a sense of independence- he’s working for his money, seeing the working-earning money-paying taxes- juggling expenses process in action. OK, that’s not necessarily a good thing :smiley: but he’ll gain an understanding of the system. Better now than when he’s 20-something and must support himself.

As for your cons, all I can say is this: it depends how you and your son handle it. Is he a good student now? If he is, chances are his grades won’t make the catastrophic plunge you fear. Good students just seem to have the work ethic to make it work. If you do see his grades falling, then make him quit to devote his energies into his schoolwork. But don’t worry about it too much. Failing grades don’t just sneak up on you; you see them coming.

If he’s not a good student now, then I understand and agree with your reservations.

Also, if he has extracurricular activities- sports, music, whatever- then he should understand that his time spent in those activities may have to be lessened.

For the record- I worked at McD’s for almost four years. My grades did not suffer at all- in fact, they improved. My junior/senior years were the most focused years of high school I had. Of course, I could only work one day (8 hours) a week. But I juggled my job, school, orchestra, and commuting 3 hours a day.

Again, it depends on your son, but if he thinks he can handle it, you should let him go for it. True, it could harm him, but then again, he could flourish under the new set of responsibilities.

3

That’s my bias. I just thought I’d point it out. If your son wants to work during the school year, or at any other time, it is all the more reason not to let him since it proves he is insane. Well, I warned you I had a bias!

Seriously though, the anti-work arguments you’ve presented vastly outweight the pro-work arguments. I simply don’t believe that teenage jobs teach responsibility. I was no more responsible as an embittered 18-year-old smelling like french fry grease than I was as a 15-year-old with dreams of government service. Most people I know who describe their teenage job experiences in positive terms, say it was good because they got good drugs through job contacts. Smoking marijuana in a warehouse and playing with pallet jacks isn’t my idea of responsibility.

Now, I’m not saying your son is like this. I certainly wasn’t. The thing I can’t figure out is, why would anyone want a job if there was free room and board available? So obviously your son is vastly different from me. My parents had to scream and cajole and threaten to kick me out of the house if I didn’t get a summer job. They would have cried tears of joy if I had somehow managed to get a job during the school-year and still pass my classes.

I believe now that the crappy experiences that happen at teenage jobs shape our attitudes toward work for a very long time. You trade away your self-esteem for minimum wage and you buy it back for a lot more.

So I suppose my short answer is:

4

Me again. I wanted to add some more. :smiley:

• If your son wants to work, that’s one of the best damn thing a parent could ask for. IMHO, of course.

• Another good reason to let him work is that he’ll learn the social structure of the workplace. Office politics, cooperation, authority, etc. It’s not always pretty, but 1) he’ll learn it sooner rather than later, which is better, and 2) he’ll also learn the good side to working with people.

• I’ve got a friend whose father absolutely refuses to let her work for mundo bizarro reasons. She’s my age, and is extremely concerned about her lack of employment history. She’s a smart chick, and will certainly succeed in life, but her lack of experience is making her insecure about her abilities and marketability as an employable person. I’m not saying you’re potentially as psycho as her pop. I guess my point is that some parents can be excessively concerned about their kids working and it ends up doing the kid more harm than good.

5

If the kid wants to go to college and has a chance at scholarships they stand to lose more in scholarships than they would gain in wages. Also, colleges like lots of activities and a job cuts into those as well. I am very anti-work during the school year.

Not long ago I had a friend in highschool whose parents insisted he work during the school year. His grades slumped but they told him no matter what his grades did that he was not going to be so lazy as to quit his job. Morons. He was bright and had a real chance at scholarships. They told him he was to work his way through the Junior College near him and did not need a 4 year degree.

If a kid has grades as good as can be, at least one activity or significant hobby and still can hold down a job, then if they want I suppose they should be allowed, on the condition it not affect their grades. However I would feel their time would be better served having fun or joining in activities. than in flipping burgers.

The big exception here is a kid who begins his or her career in highschool. When I was going to high school there was a guy who worked at a landscape company. Not only did he make significantly higher than minimum wage, but he also was working in a business that he wanted to spend his life in. He wisely stuck with high school and got his diploma, but kept his job and did well with it.

6

Boris B, such the cynic!

pkbites:

I got a job my senior year in highschool, I was also the Editor of my school paper and I ran track. My job was at a local Wal-mart. I did better grade wise that year than I did another year. I learned something important called time management, and setting priorities. I also learned the value of being responsible for my self. Aside from basic shelter and food, any other things I wanted I had to buy myself. I began to take care of my things better and had the desire to save MY money, for things I wanted!

To me it sounds like a control issue on your part, your dictatorship! Teach your son the value of hardwork and time management. Give him a since of ownership in his own life, sure he’ll be working his whole life, but teach him the tools he needs to make the rest of his life successful… and speaking as a recent college graduate… he’s not going to learn those skills in college!

7

Re: The concerns about grades

I would love to live as an adult and be able to stop doing things just because some other equally important part of my life gets taken away from somewhat.

Life is about multi-tasking, folks. I work a FT job. I also make money by doing some music journalism on the side. I have several hobbies I enjoy too. My life with my fiancee is paramount, but she knows that sometimes other things are briefly put ahead of her. And there are a million things I would love to do if I only had the time.

I doubt I am alone.

So why do we want to send the message to kids that, oh, since this part of your life is suffering, we can just eliminate it?

Sorry, I know I am biassed as someone who has been working since he was 15, often with hours approaching Full Time, but it helped me deal with the fact that I only have 80 or so years to do everything I want to while doing the things I need to, and to handle it all as efficiently and using common sense to prioritize as much as I can.

Yer pal,
Satan

I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Two months, three weeks, six days, 14 hours, 14 minutes and 19 seconds.
3543 cigarettes not smoked, saving $442.97.
Life saved: 1 week, 5 days, 7 hours, 15 minutes.

8

I think that the type of job is a major consideration, for a variety of reasons. Many retail/fast food type jobs are very good at manipulating young, inexperienced employees into having almost unreal work ethics. I have seen 16 year old kids work 20 hour shifts at fast food resterants regularly because their 19 year old manager told them to and they thought that meant they had no choice. I worked at a McD’s where 14 hour shifts on Saterdays were standard, and breaks were unheard of. (Factory workers get much more protection from labor laws than kitchen help). In many retail/fast food establishments they assume that work is first priority for everyone, and that assumption begins to wear off on everyone, including thoose who should have school as first priority. If your son is going to work during the school year, he needs to find a job where they will take him seriously when he says he can only work 10 or 15 or 20 hours a week (how much he can work depends on how many other activities he is involved in), and not slowly creep it upwards. He needs to be somewhere where he won’t have to stay and close on school nights due to regular “emergencies”. Few teenagers have the self-assurance to turn down requests for help in these situations, so you, as dad, need to watch how many hours and what hours he is working and make sure they do not escalate. With unemployment so low, these places are chronically understaffed, and most will try and do this–from their point of view, they need workers, and keeping the store open is their job, not worring about your son’s education.

I would encourage him to spend the summer looking for a job that fits his particular interests and abilities, where he can work part time reliably.

On a side note, their is a definite downside to having extra spending money. All my drinking, smoking, and drugs during high school where made possible by my income from working in various fast food establishments. If he is makling $6.50 an hour, he is bringing home at least $5/hour net, which is $100/week. That is more disposable income than most adults have. If you let him work during the school year, I would make part of the deal be that he has to put at least half of that in long term savings, for college or a car or something.

9

A job flipping burgers is not equally important to getting through high school. It is not even in the same league. It doesn’t even teach you much about holding a job. When one part of my life is suffering I finde sometimes the best thing to do is eliminate or minimize it. I don’t spend time with my relatives and I am a lot happier than I used to be.

Life is about choices. If a high school student does not need to work to support themself, having a job is optional and should not be treated as required. If it hampers their school work then it should not be allowed.

10

Audrey has a point regarding one’s work ethic. Like she said, if your son already has good grades, then obtaining a part-time job while still in high school shouldn’t be a problem, since your son would most likely maintain that GPA.

Another point I wanted to bring up was the kind of classes your son is taking. If honors classes or A.P. (advanced placement) classes are involved, then that PT job might not be such a good idea, since a great workload would be expected. If, however, they are the garden variety high school courses, then I don’t see a problem.

Also, what does your son do after school? I mean, does he study and devote his time to homework from the moment he gets home to the moment he goes to sleep? I doubt it. I would venture to say that he gets in some TV, maybe some video games, hangs out with his friends – all of which probably take up 2 or 3 hours right there.

So, those 2 or 3 hours of unproductive work could be spent at a PT job. And depending on the job, it may be a plus to add it to his future resume.

11

I see no problem with a student holding down a job during the school year, though I make this statement with the caveat that it depends entirely on the student and his/her situation as to whether or not a job is appropriate. For me, for instance, it was a virtual necessity that I hold down a part-time job during the school year since my parents did not have the money to send me to college (well, not the sorts of colleges I wanted to attend). I was an honors student (and an honor roll student) and I had no trouble keeping up my grades, particpating in sports and after school activities, and holding down a job 20 or so hours a week. Ask yourself the following question: Would you object to your son volunteering to work at a homeless shelter for X number of hours a week? (you define X). If not, then why raise an objection over a job.

Also, I think that work is a valuable tool for a child wishing to establish themselves as an independent entity. One of the most valuable things that a child can learn is how to deal with their own autonomy. My parents were VERY supportive of me, and never stated one way or the other when and where I had to work. Still, by 16 years old I had reached a time in my life when I was ready to become my own person, an entity seperate from my family, a person of my own right. My brother, at 21, is not at that state yet. It depends entirely on the personality of the person in question. Eventually, a child reaches an age when he no longer requires his parents to make choices for him or her. It should be up to the child (within reason) to decide when that time is, however. Forbidding a 16 or 17 year old person from holding a job seems equally as ludicrous as me as FORCING a 16 or 17 year person to hold a job. It’s not a question of the job being absolutely right or absolutely wrong, it is a question of autonomy. When a child has decided to become their own person, it will either be with the support of the parents or in opposition to the parents. Its entirely up to the parents which role they will choose to take.

I see nothing wrong with letting the child hold down a job for a while during the school year, and then decide in a few months if he is suffering for it. Life is too long and too variable to place much weight on the occurances of a month or two. If october roles around and his grades suffer, perhaps the job should go. If, however, he maintains the job while still performing at his usual levels, then what harm has been done. It is much better to give him the opportunity to succeed and to pick him up when he falls than to never give him the chance to see if he can succeed.

12

When I was in high school, my parents made it clear that my studies were of paramount importance. I got good grades and they expected me to continue to do so – not because they cared about the grades so much, but because they expected me to try to do my best and, in school, my personal best efforts should have resulted in good grades.

They also made it clear that, for me, having a job while in school was a priviledge. I didn’t need it to live as my parents provided for me, so it was a way to earn extra spending money and gain real-life work experience. If I wanted that experience (and that money), I was free to pursue it, so long as my grades did not suffer. But I knew from the outset that if my grades suffered or if my attitude suffered (from not getting enough sleep, for example) the job would have to go.

I worked my senior year in high school and really enjoyed it. But I also sacrificed some extra-curricular activities I might have enjoyed doing because there simply wasn’t time to do everything I wanted. And I kept my grades up, because I knew from the outset that that was the deal.

13

This one hits close to home with me (well, not close exactly, more like the center of the target). I’ve been struggling with the same issue concerning my 16-year old daughter and I smile and nod reading the great points made above on both sides. My husband has been encouraging her to work, especially this summer, while I find myself arguing that she has a whole lotta work ahead in her future and only two more years of HS to enjoy being a (sort of) kid.

There’s no easy answer, and the right answer for any student depends on that students’s particular family and circumstances. Sigh…no sharp insight here–just another concerned parent trying to figure out what’s best for her kid.

14

A couple of people talked about work experience, resume fodder yadda yadda. I don’t really think that can be considered a pro unless either A: the kid is planning on flipping burgers for the rest of his life or B: he’s getting an internship or something similar with a company in the field they want to go in. Lets be honest here, how many of you actually put your high school job at the local grocery store on your resume? I certainly as hell don’t, never have either. From a resume/experience standpoint, a volunteer position is probably better. And since my college days were not that long ago I can safely say that colleges are more impressed when you say that you volunteered at the local animal shelter than you worked at MickeyD’s for minimum wage.

15

I’m not quite sure how this fits into a for/against argument but I’m going to put in my two cents anyway.

It wasn’t a “summer job” or a “during the school year job” argument. I got up at 5:30 to help with chores, got home in time to take a shower and catch the school bus, got home around 3:45, was back in the barn by 4:30. Supper was at 5:30, then back to the barn at 6 til about 8 or 8:30. I then had 90 - 150 minutes to practice piano, do my homework, catch up on the day, shower, etc., before bed. In summer I was usually doing something between 5:30 a.m. and 8 p.m., later during haying, planting, and harvesting seasons.

I was an A student who also took piano lessons until I was 16. I also occasionally participated in extracurricular activities. Believe me, wind sprints during volleyball practice was a break.

Depends on your kid, I think. I don’t know you or anything about you so don’t take this as an insult, but I would rather have worked at McDonald’s than for my jerk of a father 5 hours a day.

To put my teen life experience against your criteria, pk, here’s what I say:

*Yes, a job teaches responsibility
Oh, yeah.

*Yes, it will give him experience
In some cases, life or death experience.

*Yes, it will prepare him for the adult world
See above.

*Yes, it will round him out as a person
Yup.

*Yes, it will give him spending money
Didn’t even get an allowance.

**NO, because a job will interfere with his school work
See the bit about A student.

**No, because he’ll end up working all his life anyway, why join the rat race when he doesn’t have to yet.
Gotta learn sometime. Would you rather they learn slow or be shocked into it when they reach career age?

**No, the chump change Ronald McDonald will give you isn’t worth a lower grade average. I’ve seen it before, this is what happens!
See the bit about no allowance.

16

Okay, to clarify what I said: I thought we were talking about jobs during the school year. During the summer, if we were old enough to work, we were expected to work – either for pay or volunteering (you can guess which was more popular with me and my siblings). You didn’t have to work full-time, but you did have to have a job of some sort. (And, during the summers, we mostly worked full-time = more money). My parents were never much persuaded by the idea that the privileges of youth meant you got to lay around all day watching T.V., eating their food and wasting your time. So, job during the school year: only if you can handle it and your school work doesn’t suffer; job during summer: absolutely.

Oh, and I certainly did put my experience waiting tables and renting cars on my resume, all the way through law school in fact. It showed an ability to take on responsibility at a young age, and a familiarity with working with the public that you just can’t get from school. Heck, I’d probably still put that stuff on my resume, except it would be like six pages long.

17

Of course, the answer to your question is… maybe.

It all depends on your kid, their sense of responsibility, their ability to manage multiple activities, and their ability to prioritize.

Here’s my story, for what it’s worth:

I got my first real job when I was 13. I’m almost afraid to admit it, being a guy - it wasn’t your typical ‘guy job’, but it was baby sitting. Not ordinary baby sitting. I sat for two kids over one summer while their mom and dad worked. It was 9-5 and I had to prepare lunch and keep disasters to a minimum. For the next 3 summers I worked detassling corn (don’t ask). When I was 16 I decided that I wanted a car. My dad offered to get me a beat up old station wagon. This was unacceptable - I had to have a Mustang, so I started working part time and weekends at a gas station. For me, this had no impact on my grades because basically, it was not within the abilities of my high school to challenge me. I took the hardest, pre-engineering courses and got mostly A’s without ever cracking a book. After graduation, I worked a summer running a jackhammer in the Texas sun. This was the most effective motivation that life could possibly contrive for keeping me in school - A career in jackhammering Texas limestone is hell-on-earth. I continued to work half time for the first couple of years while at the university and maintined a reasonable grade point average. This was much more challenging, but by that time I was living on my own and it was not a question of choice. If I wanted to stay in school and I wanted to have some of those luxuries that I had grown accustomed to, such as housing, electricity, food, etc., I had to work. I managed to save enough (plus I grabbed every student loan I could) and set up my savings so that after two years, I could finish the rest of my time at the university without working and focus on my studies. I don’t think I would have been able to manage a job and my studies in those last years.

So my point… I was properly motivated, had realistic goals, and I had a good survival strategy that allowed me to work through high school and the first couple of years at the university without seriously jeopardizing my future. I think the rewards and motivational benefits outweighed the risks to my grades. In fact, in my case, for several of my jobs, I ended up in supervisory roles that allowed me to flex some leadership wings very early on.

On the other hand, one of my good friends followed a similar path through high school, didn’t bother to go to college (the immediate source of money was too attractive), and now he’s lucky if he can hold a steady job for more than 6 months.

It all depends…

18

I started working after school and on weekends when I was fifteen. I am now going into my third of uni and I would not have made it if I hadn’t worked. Working taught me time management and people skills that I have needed to get through two years here. The money also taught me how to manage money for myself so that now when I am on my own I can afford life.

I would say let your son try it. He is old enough to start meking some decisions for himself. If his grades start to drop or other negative changes occur he can always quit the job. But he won’t know if he can hack it unless he tries.

19

I’ve read the ‘I walked 50 miles to work after slopping pigs at three AM’ jokes. I’ve read the ‘Grades are secondary to resumes’ posts. Now it’s time to tell you people how things work in the real world. In the real world, making a go of a community college because grades became secondary is not an option. CCs may be fine for slouches and layabouts, but anyone who wishes to succeed and advance beyond the stage of ‘slovenly fool’ must go to a University. Universities cost money, hence the concept of scholarships. Scholarships require grades of above average, achievements in academic and community settings, and extracurricular successes and experiences, hence the concept of not trying to keep a job during school hours. Making pig slop for minimum wage while trying to get into a respectable school and become a person of dignity, position, and worth is a fool’s errand. Only the ignorant would try it, and only the doubly ignorant would require it. Any person of intelligence can achieve a grade point average of above the mean. Thusly, extracurricular activities come to the fore. In looking at applications for scholarships, Universities frown on those who fooled away their hours making unfit food. They smile on those who showed initiative enough to apply themselves to the task at hand, viz. the schoolwork and extracurricular activities. Put concisely, the future worth of a child depends more upon the schools they attend, the education they recieve, and the social connections they make than any doubtful curricula vite entries or ‘work experience’ they may accrue through an unpromising job. Rather, it is better they apply themselves to their true task, the attainment of a scholarship and, via that, a good education, and become a respected professional in a respected career.

20

Well, I got my first “real” job two weeks ago. I am TIRED, let me tell you. Of course, I’m also working a 40 hour week and lifting heavy stuff (6 pallets worth of 50 pound boxes of construction paper) and standing on my feet all day. I don’t think I could handle doing that for 3 hours after school every day, and anyway, my job lays off all the summer help when the school year rolls around. On the other hand, I DO have a car payment and an insurance payment and stuff like that to take care of. I am thinking this way: I’m making more than minimum wage (lucky me) and I’m putting some of it back into my bank account. Perhaps I won’t have to work so much during school. I am going to try and get a job around Christmas when places are hiring. ANYWAY. I think that if the kid wants extra money for stuff, let him work, as long as his grades and stuff don’t suffer. Also, make him pay for his car and insurance. I mean, help him out with the payments, or even pay them for him, but make sure he pays you back every cent! Trust me on this one. He won’t go out and screw around and get in a wreck if he knows he has to pay for the car and the insurance.
Sorry for the hijack.