And before anyone posts THAT phrase, this Vs thread takes place in a dimension that ol’ pointy ears cannot reach no matter how prepared he is.
Got?
Ok.
Hawk is of course, Spenser’s sidekick/partner/hired thug from the Spenser series of mysteries by Robert B. Parker.
Joe Pike is Elvis Cole’s partner/sidekick in the Elvis Cole series of mystery novels by Robert Crais.
Hawk is by his own admission a professional thug, who doesn’t let the law get in the way of setting the job done and getting paid, unless he helps out Spenser. He’s an fairly good boxer, an excellent scuffler and knows his way around the wonderful world of handguns. There have also been rumors that he was a mercenary over in Asfrica for a very short period of time.
Joe Pike is a former Los Angeles police officer who now owns a gun shop and is partners with Elvis Cole. Pike joined the Marines and was a sharpshooter and was in combat and was a member of the Special Forces. While not a master of hand-to-hand combat, he isn;t someone you want to fuck with. He is a very good shot and since he owns a gun shop is familiar with almost every type of gun/pistol/rifle/shotgun out there.
Assuming for the moment that the intital battle is strictly no weapons, who wins?
And I don’t necessarily mean who lives and who dies. A knockout can suffice.
I’d say that if Hawk was able to get in close and not let Pike use his martial arts skills, Hawk would take him.
I’d place my bets on Joe Pike any day. He’s always struck me as more clever than Hawk. (Assuming, that is, that this hypothetical match takes place after Pike has recovered from his unfortunate recent bout of self-doubt.)
That said, I think Jack Reacher (of Lee Child’s books) could easily kick both their butts!
I’m gonna say Pike as well. Hawk is getting long in the tooth. I don’t think he could stop Pike from getting close enough to use his martial arts. Plus, Hawk is cool, but I just like Pike better. That’s my reason, and I’m sticking by it.
But if we open it up to make it a loyal sidekick free-for-all, I gotta go with Bubba from Dennis Lehane’s Patrick Kenzie series. He’s a crazy fucker, and thus, more unpredictable than the others.
On second thought, Jack Reacher is not a PI sidekick.
I therefore elect Windsor Horne Lockwood III, from Harlan Coben’s “Myran Bolitar” series. Win is the quintessential WASP, a financial consultant who is also a master at Tae Kwon Do and rumored in some (criminal) circles to be psychopathic.
Hawk can take Pike. Martial arts are not a threat for Hawk. In Stardust, when Spenser warns him that Jill Joyce’s former lover was making trouble, and had a bodyguard that was well-versed in karate, Hawk’s only comment was, “Good - it’s fun to watch.” And in A Catskill Eagle, Hawk makes short shrift of the Oriental assassin who launaches a series of roudhouse kicks at him.
Now, this refers to Hawk in his prime. If we’re talking an aging Hawk, all bets are off.
Crais characters aren’t as smartassed in their comments as Parker’s are, or at least they aren’t that way as often. In the early Spenser novels one of the things I loved was the descriptions of the food and cooking, but Parker seems to have left those behind, which is fine.
I guess the biggest difference is that I can get through a Spenser novel in 2 1/2 -3 hours, while a Crais book may take me a day or so. They are both quite good at what they do, and i would recommend Dennis Lahane as well.
Oh, couple other things, Crais books are set mostly in LA although they don’t have that LA kind of vibe or feel to them.
I would definitely check a few of Crais books out.
Some of the titles are: **Sunset Express, Free Fall, Stalking The Angel, Lullaby Town, L.A. Requiem ** and The Last Detective which is his latest one.
Thanks Muldoon, much appreciated. I’ll check him out.
Regarding the original topic, Parker does not seem to have a high regard for martial arts “in the real world”. In addition to the two references above, there is a little speach he gives to the radical feminist in “Promised Land” (iirc) after he knocks her out when she kicked him in the balls.
Paraphrasing from a many year-old memory:
her:* I don’t understand. That kick was supposed to finish you right there. *
Spenser: You’ve probably put in a lot of time on the mat. For most guys it would probably be enough. But have you ever hit someone for real, in the streat, with no rules?
(…)
I’m a professional thug. I do this for a living. I’ve been kicked in the balls before. I know I’ll survive and there won’t be much damage. I can work through the pain. (…)
I’m also 50 pounds heavier than you. A good big person will always beet a good smaller person.
Spenser also beats a number of martial arts trained bodygards:
Bucky Mainard’s BG in Mortal Stakes (lester?)
The rich guy’s BG in the book where Susan’s ex-husband is in trouble. The one where Spenser shoot the heavy bag in the gym in response to a threatening demonstration.
(My recollection of the later books is less good…)
I seem to have the impression (memory not good enough to quote, sorry) that Parker believes that fighters trained in oriental martial arts, as opposed to Anglo-American boxing, are fast, but do not “follow-through” on their punches, and thus do not puch very hard, and that the kicks are too slow to connect most of the time.
-Trupa
I personally would vote for Meyer (from Travis Magee) because he would stop either Hawk or Pike and get them involved in a discussion about taxation strategies, or maybe sea urchins. Both Pike and Hawk would feel strangely compelled, fall into a trance and then Meyer would hit them with an economics book.
PIKE, PIKE, Pike all the way! I mean Pike is just freakin dangerous, he knows weapons, martial arts, is intelligent- and just really, really cool. He could take Hawk no problem.
Plus you gotta remeber that in LA Requim Cole says something like, “I fully believe that Joe Pike is the most dangerous man in the world.”
Joe Pike could sneak in, get rid of Hawk, and no one would find out.
Admittly I just have a hard-on for Pike- but seriously- Pike’s the last person you want to mess with.
I was gonna do another Vs thread with Bubba in it.