Hawkeye, new Marvel show on Disney+

It looked like he had been run through, but I don’t think there was anything explicit about it in the scene where Kate found the body.

I think they were going for a deliberate parallel with Nat being similarly unconcerned about being tied up by Russian mobsters at the beginning of The Avengers.

I don’t think there’s any question about that. I think Agents of SHIELD actually explicitly referenced letting yourself be captured as being a standard SHIELD protocol (although of course that series was only ever loosely in canon and has now been de-canonized).

The scene also builds on Hawkeye’s whole world-weary veteran hero schtick. He knows the Track Suit Mafia, he knows how they operate, and he knows their capabilities. He’s not in any real danger from them, and he knows it.

I suspect the show is going to undercut that when Echo shows up as the new boss of the Track Suit Mafia, and Hawkeye realizes that he doesn’t know them quite as well as he thought he did, and they’re now more dangerous and capable than he gave them credit for, and he may actually need Hawkeye, Jr.'s help to deal with them. Or, going along with the whole red herring bit above, while they may be criminals, they may not actually really be the bad guys in this situation…

That was the same shot as the first time we see Widow in the avengers movie (black chair and all). As Laura said, he’s using her move. He wanted to get in, talk to the boss, get out - of course he’s unbothered.

I’m assuming that there’s confusion around Ronin because there were a lot of people at the Avengers compound during the fight against Thanos. There were the big names, but also the Wakandan army, whoever was hanging out at Kamar Taj, whatever’s left of SHIELD in that timeline, some aliens, etc. Having Ronin’s suit there points to someone that the Avengers know, but not necessarily one of the major Avengers. (There are probably many, many conspiracy theories pointing to every single one of them).

…And yet she can take multiple full-force punches from goons over the span of an hour or so. I’m not hating on it too terribly much, but it definitely took me out of the show. I get that she’s a black belt and I’ll give some BOTD to the first group of thieves that they were probably just some dudes trying to get a payday, but she was taking full force punches from grown men, goons even, in a New York underworld mafia. I don’t care how many colored belts you have, a 22-year old girl is not getting up from that.

That’s just a minor quibble though. The Cups household had a very fun time watching the show. I like Hawkeye a lot and really appreciate his role in the MCU. Small stakes fun might be just what the MTVU needs.

As far as anyone knows, he could have been someone the Avengers killed.

So can literally every other character in the MCU. That’s just how action movies roll.

And Coulson I think.

They were specifically “Armand III” branded, but “OMG he’s got a candy he took from a bowl left out for visitors in a house he frequently visited” ain’t much of a smoking gun.

That’s so spot-on it’s scary.

Is there a Poe’s Law corollary for Broadway show tune parodies?

Music by Marc Shaiman, who has Tony, Grammy, and Emmy awards (just needs an Oscar for the EGOT). Lyrics by Marc Shaiman and Scott Wittman, the team behind the Tony and Grammy award winning musical Hairspray. They should just go and do a full-on Rogers: The Musical. I’d watch it.

Yes, but that’s my point.

Is this supposed to be a “bad” Broadway tune, a laughably bad miss, one so obviously bad that it should be met with derision from the Avengers and critics in-universe (and us, the audience) or is it supposed to be a Tony-winning tune?

It’s not clear.

I think it’s meant to be cheesy, not bad. A lot of Broadway music sounds cheesy out of context, but as soon as you see it in the show live, you get caught up in it. What would make the tune work or not is seeing the show as a whole.

Or, alternatively, what’s important is how Clint reacted, not what we think of it.

I don’t think it matters whether it’s good or not. If George Gershwin and Leonard Bernstein had risen from the grave to co-write the greatest musical in Broadway history, Hawkeye would have still come away from it with the same feeling of melancholy and bewilderment. The problem isn’t that they made a bad musical about his friends and him, it’s that they made one at all.

Brilliant and uplifting in-universe, cheesy and ridiculous to us, heartbreaking to Clint.


The thing about this (and I know it’s a blind spot in Marvel generally) is that Clint is far from the only person in the New York audience of Rogers the Musical who might be expected to have conflicted feelings about the whole “wasn’t that terrifying alien attack basically a great moment for some folks to be awesome” presentation. We’ve already seen that Kate’s current psychological outlook is partly shaped by the events of 2012 - you wouldn’t be at all surprised if when Clint stepped outside a quarter of the audience were there with him, breathing through panic attacks.

(Maybe, given that what with Thanos and everything, everyone in the world is pretty much guaranteed to be traumatised, the musical is a deliberate attempt - possibly government funded - to try to reframe these events in a positive light).

Perhaps the average person superhuman resistance to physical trauma in the MCU also extends to psychological trauma too?

My impression is that a lot of people who attend Broadway shows are from out of town.

And compared to the Blip which (all logic suggests) would have long-lasting world-wide devastating effects, an incident that lasted less than a day, with a dramatic resolution achieved by a few heroes, might seem soothing by contrast (except for people like Clint, who know what it was really like)

Episode 3 dropped today. First real exposure to Echo, and I think she’s going to make for an interesting antagonist (assuming that she stays the show’s “big bad,” and not a back door opening for Kingpin, since he’s her adopted father ).

Shorter episode, but just the right mix of action and humor. The Pym particle arrow got a laugh out of me. I love the Kate Bishop character, and Steinfeld strikes a good balance of naivety and “young adult who knows it all.” And the banter is enjoyable.

I think I’m liking this show better than any other MCU show.

ETA: I haven’t read the comics in a while…did Echo have a prosthetic foot, or was that an addition for the show?