What specific circumstances? The fact that Brown talked about health care in his campaign? So what? Every special election candidate talks about their priorities, but whatever they are the business of government does not stop to wait for their vote.
Again, do you have any information to the contrary?
I think your are over-estimating how much attention voters pay to the minutae of legislative tactics. In any event if health care is passed there are a fair number of immediate benefits that Democrats can point to (in addition to the big benefits that will take time to kick in):
Here is a list from an excellent pieceby Jon Cohn:
Republicans will attempt to hammer any Democrat who voted for the bill. Saying that they voted against it after voting for it isn't going to help them at all. And failure to pass health care is going to deeply demoralize the Democrat base much of which will stay home in November.
Well yeah, but that’s the status quo ante, and we’re stuck with it; that’s the only way health care reform was going to pass anyway. Adding one more small procedural wrinkle - why should that be a big deal to anyone who’s not a political junkie?
Guess I should add this December 7 press release from Snowe’s office: Snowe Discusses Health Care Reform Bill with President Obama in the Oval Office
An interesting definition of ‘shut out’ our friend Fotheringay-Phipps has.
“Please don’t use a procedural tactic to stop us from using a procedural tactic to stop you from passing the law using your majority”. Hilarious.
On a practical front though, I think the biggest problem the Dems have is that they haven’t sold their health plan to the public. If there was huge support for their plan, they could do all the procedural maneuvering they wanted, and there would be no backlash. But, combine the public’s ambivalence/resistance to the plan with some procedural maneuvering to get it passed, and it doesn’t look good for the Dems.
I knew the Democrats would miss their best opportunity to get this thing passed. Here’s what Obama said today:
Fuck.
When they are barraged by campaign ads about it, they won’t have to have paid much attention during the process to get the message.
Obama doesn’t have the numbers now to get re-elected. If he pushes through the current health care bill those numbers will go down.
The buzz is that they are apparently trying to get Snowe on board. Can’t say I am very optimistic about that but I don’t think it’s a bad opening gambit.Obama probably needs to at least look conciliatory immediately after the election. But if it doesn’t work he is going to have to find a way of getting the House to pass the Senate bill. Do what it takes: cut any deal, twist any arms but get it done. There will be a short-term price but few voters will remember anything about legislative tactics in November. If OTOH health care isn’t passed Democrats will get slaughtered and may lose both House and Senate.
He does if he is running against Sarah Palin.
I am serious.
Good attack ads have to be simple. Legislative tactics are complicated and voters don’t understand or care about them. If Republicans make ads about legislative tactics and Democrats make ads about the immediate benefits of health care, I think the latter will have the advantage.
I am not so sure about that. People seem really certain that there will be some major turnover. I am not convinced.
I don’t think the Dems will lose control of either house of Congress, but their majorities could be very slender in each if they don’t pass health care.
I mean, what are they going to run on, this fall, if they don’t pass health care? “We’re totally fucking useless, but not outright evil and crazy like the GOP”?
Let’s see, Obama and Reid have already said just that, and they are going to do just that. Normal courtesy would require just that. In any event it is going to be done. So is there any debate here?
Yes, there is the debate on whether such courtesy should be extended in the event that the other side does not extend such courtesies.
Personally, I think that the Senate health care bill is a tax on poor people for the benefit of insurance companies and should die. It would not “cover” one person for years to come. It is a complete waste of legislative effort.
The intentional delay and obstruction imposed by the Republican minority using the anti-democratic filibuster more often than in any previous Congress and the debacle in the Minnesota Senate race with the seating of Franken suggest that courtesy is something lacking in the seating of Senators on the Republican side.
My suggestion to Obama in his effort to be “bipartisan” is that he specifically mention that we are extending this courtesy even in the absence of the same in the Franken seating as an olive branch, and he would like the minority to consider the same standing down and extension of courtesies.
I am disgusted with the non-partisan tone of the Obama administration. I don’t like Republican policies, but I sure can respect that they don’t mind their leaders, (dating back to President Reagan) slamming their opponents by name and constantly. That’s what politics is. I don’t think the fellow from Illinois appreciates that the same way Dr. Dean or Sec. Clinton do.
Why not continue the debating and discussing, while allowing Brown to take his place before actually putting it to a vote? That way, it stays “active” while still giving Brown respect and an opportunity to vote.
Yep, they’re going to run on “we’re totally fucking useless, but have mercy and vote for us anyway.” Because they don’t have the guts to call a spade a spade, and call the GOP evil and crazy.
And the most scary thing of all, from an anonymous Dem Congressional staffer:
Yeah, we’re fucked.
One party’s evil, crazy, and effective; the other party’s a bunch of scared rabbits. We’re SO fucked.
if Brown got elected in a Democrat anchor-state like Massachusetts think how popular he would be running for President.
Worked great for Romney, dinnit?
A majority of voters in Mass are Independents, not Democrats. And it is a very liberal state. Brown is the only major office holder who is Republican. Presumably he wants to be reelected. He cannot do that without being like Sen. Snowe.