What, no pitting of the Democratic party today?

After the details of the almost totally eviscerated Senate health care bill have become known? Liberal bloggerspace is currently full of threads decrying the Democrats as wimps, expressing plummeting morale, and fearful of a Republican resurgence in 2010.

Now, as a left-leaning liberal with some perspective, I don’t think things are quite as bad so as to warrant all the razor blades and hanging ropes to come out, but this certainly isn’t an ideal bill at all. What I don’t understand is the angry determination to throw all Democratic congresspersons under the bus, even (or especially) those who tried to stay true to their ideals, when really there are a relative handful of those DINO types who sold everyone else out to Big Insurance by threatening the filibuster. You could also blame the leadership I guess (Obama and Reid mainly), but I still haven’t seen a plausible way to have gotten Lieberman and his cohorts to change their minds.

Yes, I dislike the very concept of the GOP regaining power (they’d make Reagan & even Dubya look like progressive saints by comparison)-I dislike how this “democracy” has seemingly sold out to big business. I dislike how so few citizens in this country seem willing to think critically and at least agree to agree on what the various facts are of our existence, abjectly refusing to evolve their consciousness beyond simplistic either/or, black or white thinking. But [Optimist’s Hat] it’s always darkest before the dawn.

You sound surprised.

Eh, I think the Medicare buy-in alternative is actually better then any Public Option compromise that was likely to show up. I’d rather a Medicare buy-in then a Public Option not linked to Medicare rates, which until today looked like what we were going to get.

As for Insurance Companies, I don’t really care about them one way or the other. If reform screws them over, I’m not real worried about it, but I think the current idea that any reform that doesn’t screw them over is somehow not worth it is silly.

Reform should expand coverage to everyone, decrease the rate of increase in private and public Medical costs and end the chance of people being dropped from insurance after they become ill, have a funding mechanism that covers any increase in federal spending and at least do something to wean away from the current paradigm of work-linked insurance. This bill sounds like it will do all the things.

Providing a strong kick in the nuts to the Executive Board of Cigna isn’t on my list.

Now if Dems had ditched the Public Option without getting something decent in return, I might be on board with the pitting.

Big medical sent 1500 lobbyists down on the Senate this week. Before that they were spending 1.5 million dollars a day fighting the health care bill. It is reality of big business facing down politicians. It is minimally legalized bribery. It becomes another giveaway to the insurance companies. The amount of money they spent tells you 2 things. One that they have unlimited money to pay to prevent health care from happening. And that it will cost them money if we changed the system. We have to throw all the bums out.

Tell ya what.
Why don’t you start a thread, and we’ll see how it goes?

You know, some of those crazy-ass radicals claim that corporate and financial interests have an inordinate degree of power. Just sayin’, is all.

I’m so angry I can’t even talk about it right now.

I’m not angry, I’m apathetic.

At this point, what did you expect?

The Democrats have been demonstrating for years they have no principles and no spine. Which still puts them on a higher plane than the outright evil and crazy Republicans but does mean that there’s little that I am surprised to see them sink to. I never expected health care reform or much of anything else useful to come out of them; just that they’d do less damage.

It’ll be useful if your one of millions of Americans that will be able to become insured thanks to the bill, or who don’t get dropped from your insurance just because your sick and hopefully to those who are having their income devoured by ever increasing premiums. It’ll be useful in decreasing the federal deficit and fixing Medicare.

The fact is, we weren’t going to get a France style single payer system, even if Harry Reid was replaced by LBJ. And if Ben Nelson and Blanche Lincoln were replaced by moderate Republicans, we would’ve gotten nothing. The current Senate compromise is pretty good, has a decent chance to solve a lot of very serious problems with Healthcare in this country, and perhaps most importantly, is a thing which can actually pass through Congress and become law.

I worked for a company that manages prescription benefits, mail and local meds supplies etc. In 2007 I think it was, they were making 33 BILLION dollars a year. That’s 1/6th of the expected TARP surplus that people are fighting over, and the amount they make now is surely higher.

There will still be plenty of money to be made after the basic heath needs of our citizens have been met.

Nothing can beat the lady that yelled “Keep your government hands off of my Medicare!” at a “town meeting” though. It would be an injustice for me to point out all of the flaws in this woman’s position, because someone else here would be able to do a much better job.

I thought they did surprisingly well here. Sure several DINOs and corporate lackeys turned up, but despite that they’ve come close to doing something useful.
A little effort by voters to elect better Democrats where needed might bear great fruit for the nation.
The Republicans on the other hand, have shown us all exactly who it is that has them all bought and paid for, and it isn’t ma and pa kettle out in the red states.

Wake me up when something actually passes and is implemented, and isn’t just a handout to the corporations.

It does say something about them that “almost doing something useful” is better than average for them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arnold-william-klein/patient-safety_b_386454.html Here is an article showing how Pharma can control doctors and medicine to increase profits. The parts of the equation that matter least are the patients and their safety.

What, so you’re mad that the Democrats aren’t fucking people like me harder? Thanks. Thanks a lot.

Works for a small business who’s co pay and deductible for health care has gone up the last two years and will go up higher now. Check

Has a so called “Cadillac plan” that will get the shit taxed out of. Check

Has worked hard for being solidly in the middle class but gets taxed at the same rate as someone who makes twice as much as me. Check

Makes “too much” to get anything at all beneficial out of this. Check

I’m sure to think of more ways that I’m getting fucked with no lube but you go on and be mad at the Democrats for not getting more out of my ass. Fuck.

And here’s a God damned roll eyes for liberal pieces of shit who think I’m not paying my fucking fair share. :rolleyes:

Your blaming liberals that the tax code isn’t progressive enough?

Pay more! Pay more! Wait, how exactly will you be paying more? Explain please.

Way back in the primaries, I said that although I could get behind Clinton’s health care plan, I didn’t think it was ever going to happen and that Obama’s plan (to allow Americans into a system like the federal employees got) was a much more likely solution.

Then Obama won and this whole debate started and somehow or another a public option got pressed into there and the whole thing became about the public option.

Now, to perhaps seal the deal, we have… well, per CNN…

…we have basically what I thought was a good idea from Obama back in January 2008. Oh, and an expansion of Medicare which will have much further reaching effects than a public option that few people would qualify for or be able to enter into (since you had to meet income thresholds, etc in the old plan).

So, no, I’m not upset or angry. Frankly, I’m thrilled that the “compromise” is the very thing I liked two years ago.

I still want single payer. I won’t consider them finished with the job until we get it.

Could someone post a link to the details of the almost totally eviscerated Senate health care bill?