I don’t think any gives permission for someone to have a catastrophic illness or injury. It would be nice, for instance, if we could just say that child is not permitted to get cancer, but we cannot do that.
Nobody deserves to die when they get sick. Some just do.
A person not having insurance or the means to care for himself does not necessarily imply that person is lazy. But it does mean he has made certain choices that have resulted in him not having medical coverage or the means to pay for it on his own. If he can convince other persons to cover his expenses, that is fine. But the government should not come in and force other people to pay for his treatment.
What if a person is working a job and is fired when they are diagnosed with an expensive and life-threatening disease? It’s very easy to drum up a case to fire someone, and many people lack the means or will to sue in a case like this. Yet, the vast majority of us are insured through work.
What about individuals who are disabled (including mentally challenged)? This is a disadvantage in acquiring a better-insured job. If you’re mopping floors at BK, and you’re not insured, is that a “choice”?
They should get a lawyer on a contingency fee basis. They should not shift the cost onto others because they do not want to sue.
If a person is so disabled or mentally challenged that they cannot provide for themselves, that might be a situation where society could step in and help depending on the exact situation.
You know 2.5IF , I have heard you say you are a teacher, a very noble profession in my mind. I heard you say your eligible to join MENSA, so you’re intelligent. But why all the fucking hate? People are not disposable. Maybe you should have been a mercenary. At least they get paid. If this is what lives in your mind you should be a serial killer. You don’t have to be a badass to be one. You ever seen a serial killer that looked like a badass? Maybe you don’t have the stomach for it. Not many do so just cut it fucking out already. We’re all in the same boat here. Try to have some compassion for your fellow man. Yeah, I know, a lot of us are pieces of shit, but are you gonna make the call? Are you going to decide?
If you will go back and read my posts in this thread, you will see that one of the reasons I do not want money wasted on health care for Americans is because there are people out there who need the help more - like all the refugees around the world.
You want to spend the money on people that live in relative paradise, I want to spend it on the people that are the worst off in the world - I guess I am confused as to why I am the one filled with hate?
Who do you honestly feel needs help more - Americans without insurance or refugees like those in the Kakuma Refugee Camp?
He doesn’t have all the answers though, he just picks a choses what to respond to. He hasn’t told us any proposed solution to the inevitable downward spiral that would result from his plan. Kids with no education get bad McJobs, can’t afford medical care, have more kids, etc, etc. He hasn’t mentioned his thoughts about the fact that Americans already spend much, much more per capita than other countries for health care due to privatization, and his system would only make this worse. He hasn’t told us what happens to kids who are orphaned or otherwise abandoned when their parents cannot afford health care and education. He hasn’t admitted that according to his morals he should never have been educated at all and should quit his job because he strongly disagrees with it’s existence. In fact, I believe that under his stance his own mother should have aborted him, because she clearly couldn’t afford privatized everything and so did not deserve to have kids. This would probably be a blessing for the rest of us, but somehow I doubt he’ll admit it himself.
In short, he is cherrypicking the parts of the argument that suit him. Even his answers to those parts suck. I hope he doesn’t try to teach any debate at his evil public school.
What is a more pressing concern, education and health care for Americans or the basic needs of life for refugees around the world? Every dollar spent of Americans, is a dollar we cannot chose to spend to help refugees and other people who have so much less than Americans.
American citizens who pay taxes to support America are infinitely more deserving of health care and other benefits from the American government than ANY African refugee, no matter how heartstring plucking their plight. I am an American who has paid taxes since my teens and who does not have health insurance, in part because there is no mandate to ALL employers to furnish access to insurance to their employees. Even so, I chose not to register for the Oregon Health Plan lottery recently because there are other Oregonians in worse shape than I who need it more than I do–but I still deserve to be taken care of.
Refugees in a Kenyan camp are ultimately the responsibility of the Kenyan government, just as the responsibility for some of the Sudanese “Lost Boys” was transferred to America when we gave them asylum here. America has historically absorbed enormous numbers of refugees and the disadvantaged from all over the world. Additionally, the American government spends quite large amounts of money every year in foreign aid, not to mention the private charities and individual contributions of many American citizens. As such I’d say our karma as a country is fairly clean when it comes to African refugees–we didn’t make them homeless and very many of us are donating time and money to help them.
That being said, perhaps you might be familiar with the expression “charity begins at home.” It impoverishes America more to have formerly productive, tax paying citizens either become disabled due to untreated conditions or by dying of them than it does to spend the money wisely to ensure the health and well being of those who live here and who will be responsible for continuing to support the American government with taxes and the fruits of their labor. African refugees, no matter how good it might feel to help them out, will never return the favor, let alone return it with interest into future generations. As cold as it may sound, spending money to fix African refugees is purely sand pounded down a rathole. It’s not a sound investment of our resources. Keeping our citizens healthy and productive, on the other hand, is an extremely sound investment which will keep on benefiting the country as a whole and allow us to produce the kind of money that makes it feasible for us to then expand our charitable activities in other countries. Therefore, your position is untenable as money diverted to other countries that will never have a concrete return on the investment will result in less and less money and resources available for assistance in the future.
The fact that I’ve taken time out of my day to address your idiotic position as though it were worthy of reasoned discourse does not change the fact that I personally think you’re a stupid, dogmatic, uneducated, ridiculous, strident, pissy, whiny little bridge denizen. Feel free to fuck off any old time now, y’hear?
Dude, I’m not sure why you’re quoting me, because you’re still not answering any of these points. Listen carefully, I’ll try to make this simple enough for your tiny little brain to handle:
Less dollars could be spent if care was publicized. This has been proved time and time again. It’s clear that you don’t want less total dollars spent, you want less of your precious money spent - it’s still okay in your mind if others go broke paying for their health care/education.
Don’t you think a country - any country - has a duty to it’s own citizens first? I’m not sure I see the point of leaving Americans to die in the streets while sending aid to other nations. I certainly don’t see the point of keeping the poorer Americans poor - who despite your assertions certainly can live in deplorable conditions comparable to the third world. Don’t you think you should be educating kids so that they can go on to address world issues?
Weren’t you the one who proposed locking up the homeless so they didn’t bother you? How does this jive with that? You know that lots of homeless people are in that sitaution due to low education, lack of job opportunities, and poorly managed mental health conditions. So, you deny them treatment because those bastards deserve what they got, but then you spend money locking them up? WTF?
What about an American who doesn’t pay taxes (and/or has never paid taxes), are you willing to cut them? Are they more deserving of help than ANY refugee (not necessarily African)? Are Americans more valuable human beings to you?
You have not shown that a public health care system would be cheaper than a private health care system, just that it would probably be cheaper than the public/private mess we have now.
We owe the same to duty to all people. I think it sick to think of Americans as more valuable than other human beings. Why do think an America is worth more than other people? Do honestly think Americans live in conditions similar to the people in the Kakuma Refugee Camp?
I am strong supporter of children being educated.
That is a total distortion of my position. But I guess I cannot expect too much from a person that thinks the value of a person is determined by the country to which that person is born a citizen.