Actually, we need a new term. “Socialism” means everything from progressive liberal policies like a 40 hour workweek, to the Communist dictatorships of the last century.
When Americans hear “Socialism”, they hear “Communist dictatorship”.
Progressive ideas arent really “socialism”. They are indeed- progressive or even Liberal. We are liberal capitalists, not socialists.
Bernie isnt much of a socialist, afaik he doesnt want to nationalize all the banks and major industries.
12% of Sanders supporters voted for Trump in November 2016. :eek: Perhaps this isn’t so surprising: Both opposed NAFTA and liberal immigration policies. However I wonder if the phenomenon was less about issues than about personae — Both Bernie and Donnie are hard-spoken white men, and were perceived as outsiders.
According to this report, for the next cycle only 5.5% of those likely to vote for Sanders are likely to vote for Trump. But almost 9% of those likely to vote Biden are also likely to vote Trump! And this is from a 2019 poll, with the nature of this Orange Monster now clearly on display. 
(Like it or not, this suggests that a white male may be the D’s best chance.)
(The CNN sponsered poll (pdf) produced a 95-page report (pdf) which may have useful information about Democratic issues and candidates.)
That emoji is pretty hyperbolic considering 25% of Clinton supporters voted for Mcain in 2008.
This bizarre fixation on “Bernie bros” stealing the election from Hillary Clinton is a fantasy and shows yet again that the Democratic party is incapable of learning from its mistakes.
20 Dems running, half of which are actually decent, and the party is on track to nominate the only candidate who voted for the Iraq War. It’s almost funny.
See how that works against Trump.
Not to mention many of that 12% were considered crossover voters who would never have voted for Clinton in the first place. Sanders did not “steal” voters from Clinton. He got voters she couldn’t.
Clinton supporters seem utterly incapable of thinking there could have been something wrong with their candidate. It is always someone or something else with them.
Trump is a very different person than McCain, a moderate war hero Veteran. Many moderates could support either.
But how could a progressive or a socialist support Trump? You cant get much further apart on the political scale that Sanders vs trump.
Several things led to Clintons loss. The Comey letter was #1.
But the undecided and independent voters was also big, and you cant deny many Sandernistas were independents:
And of course there was Clintons big decline in popularity. Sure the Comey letter and the email thing was part of that but Comey came very late. What hurt Clinton was the smear campaign by GOP and Russian trolls- smears that honest Bernie-Bros gleefully passed along in social media.
So, no- the Bernies Bros didnt steal the election from Clinton- but they were a factor.
And who gives a fuck about the Senate vote for the Iraq war? That was in 2003 and both Clinton and Biden have said they were bamboozled by fake intelligence passed along by GWB and his cohorts. And that vote wasn’t for the war, actually:
The night of the vote, Biden said his concerns were eased by Bush who had said “war is neither imminent nor inevitable.”
Most of the candidates werent even Senators back then. So, it’s basically Vote for Sanders! if you make this into a purity test. And of course Trump supported the war, but had no vote then. In any case, Biden’s vote wasnt necessary, the measure passed by a very large margin.
Depends on what political scale you’re looking at. Both promised big changes. To someone who perceived the current system as failed, any change would look promising.
What/who constitutes a “Bernie Bro” in your view?
I do.
And Clinton and Biden simply did a political calculation and voted for the war because that was what was most politically expedient.
Also, that 12% is spread out among 50 states +DC, most of which don’t even matter in the Electoral College. Who cares if a Bernie supporter in NYC or LA, or even in West Virginia or North Dakota, voted for Trump? Their votes were meaningless.
Yes, John McCain, that paragon of virtue who literally sang songs bout bombing Iran during his campaign and who left his crippled wife for a mistress who went on to finance his political career. Thrusting Sarah Palin on the national political stage was a also a great favor he did the country
The hard-on some Democrats have for this ghoul is so creepy.
I care. The current political mess we are mired in can be directly traced back to that horror. It was a trillion-dollar fiasco that led to over a million dead and a completely destabilized Middle East, along with the decay of the public trust of government and the media. Trump is president because of the Iraq War.
I don’t care what the reasons were that led our wonderful leaders to invade a sovereign country. In a perfect world, not only should the Bush administration be in jail, but any elected official who in any way supported the war should be too. Lord knows there are plenty of people in prison who are guilty of far lesser crimes.
I swore to myself long ago that I would never vote for anyone who supported the war. Still, I changed my mind and voted for Clinton in 2016 because Trump was so repugnant. I regret that now- I’m in a safe blue state and my vote did nothing but increase Clinton’s popular vote percentage. All I accomplished was helping Clinton sycophants endlessly yap about how she was the popular vote, as if that means something.
Biden is a hard pass for me. Not that it matters, like most Americans my vote for president doesn’t count for anything thanks to the Electoral college (which we are apparently stuck with for all eternity, hooray).
Sounds like we would have been even closer a few months ago. My wife and I voted for Amy Klobuchar in the primary and the general election. I bought her book The Senator Next Door and really enjoyed it (her dad was a legendary op-ed columnist, so I am willing to believe she really wrote it). Hers was the only bumpersticker on our car.
Then I learned about how abusive she was to her staff. Not the comb in the soup–who cares. Even throwing the stapler or whatever was not the worst. It was her taking revenge on staffers who dared to leave her for other jobs, by calling people up and putting pressure on them to rescind the job offers, that tore it for me. And she has not denied any of it.
I’m not saying it’s going to be a huge political liability for her. But one of the fundamental reasons I am a Democrat has to do with workers’ rights. What she did makes me sick, and I can’t in good conscience support her as a result. If she becomes the nominee anyway, I will of course support her against Trump, but she has really fallen from grace with me overall.
So much this. Let’s not forget: there is video showing shirtless Bernie in the USSR (he was there on his honeymoon), drunkenly singing worker solidarity songs with his Soviet hosts. I haven’t yet seen any video of his visit to show solidarity with the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, but I’d hardly be surprised if some shows up.
Say what? You most certainly can. Please Google Todd Akin and consider some apparent ignorance fought.
That poll lists a whole passel of potential attributes for a political candidate, and the two that were seen the most negatively were “socialist” and “over 75”. The third-worst was “atheist”. In light of that, if we nominate a 79 year old self-proclaimed socialist who doesn’t really deny being an atheist and was backed by Putin in 2016, it’s like we’re just asking to lose. Sometimes it almost seems like the whole Sanders campaign is a Borat-style prank. :smack:
People who insist otherwise need to really interrogate themselves about whether they are letting wishful thinking override basic pragmatism and common sense. We need to get rid of Trump! Then in eight years you can try to make AOC president or whomever.
No, let’s forget that, since it’s a pathetic attempt at a smear.
Thanks, SlackerInc. Throwing a stapler is just “healthy anger,” but the vindictive behavior you describe is despicable.
I certainly agree that rooting for a socialist who would be almost 80 years old if inaugurated seems like bizarre foolishness. Even if he’d have a chance in “normal” times, this election will be dominated by half-truths from Hannity et al, and Sanders is too easy of a target.
But I’d almost support Sanders if I thought the Kremlin — our new overlords — would pull out all the stops to help him win! But Kremlin’s support for Sanders was just to weaken Hillary, who even Putin thought was headed for the White House. If the Kremlin gets to decide between Sanders and Trump, they’ll surely pick Trump.
Hey! I can play this game too!
I haven’t yet seen any video of his visit to show solidarity with the Bidenistas in Nicaragua, but I’d hardly be surprised if some shows up.
I haven’t yet seen any video of his visit to show solidarity with the Trumpsters in North Korea, but I’d hardly be surprised if some shows up.
We can do this all day.
Ah, lovely: they have already found some videos of Bernie praising not just the Sandinistas but also Fidel Castro. Awesome.
Your linked page also has a link pointing to “Biden’s Presidential Bid Puts Spotlight on Spygate Scandal.”
Thank God Election Day is almost here! We’ll only have to endure another eighteen months of this.
Jerry would be very disappointed in you.
Hey, my mom went to a Castro speech in Cuba before Obama eased relations. I would have had no quarrel with Bernie if he stayed up in Vermont and served as the groovy, Ben & Jerry’s avatar for white people with Ph.D.s (again, like my mom, who also caucused for Jesse Jackson in the ‘80s). But Bernie running for president is as cockamamie an idea as Maxine Waters moving to Idaho and running for governor.
Jerry’s rolling in his grave.
*Special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian election interference had already revealed that Kremlin-linked trolls were ordered to write social media posts not only in opposition to Clinton but in support of Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump. This study offers a picture of how extensive this effort was.
“There is no question that Sanders was central to their strategy. He was clearly used as a mechanism to decrease voter turnout for Hillary Clinton,” Darren Linvill, associate professor of communications and one of the researchers who worked on the study, told The Post.*
In other words, the “Bernie bros” were Kremlin-linked trolls, and if Sanders hadn’t been in the race, they’d have found some other way to troll.