It’s obvious from context that she was talking about any non-indigeonous occupyers at all. She wasn’t ranting about Jews, but about racial entitlement.
Whatever you would like to think, you are welcome to it. You certainly were on the non-equating side of the argument before I posted and seemed to switch afterwords, specifically post 23. So while I was over inclusive in my use of “everyone” before your post #23 and obviously overused the word “everyone”, your post #23 included you in the group. I really think that your nitpicking on “everyone” is bizarre, but maybe you are one of those people who try to distract that way.
I think all Minnesotans should go back to Norway.
Not exactly - many white South Africans have roots there going back hundreds of years. The same is not necessarily true of Israeli Jews.
… who are also a distinct ethnic group. We’re not transplanted American Jews - we have our own culture, language, history and beliefs that we share with no-one else in the world. I wish people would finally understand that.
Speaking out against Israelis (not Jews) as a whole is as much racism as, say, speaking out against the French.
And we are indigenous to this country. We became indigenous again within a relatively short time, that’s true, but we’re still as indigenous as anyone in the world. Indigenous is a state of mind.
And that is a crap analysis of the objection. The questioner pulled a bait and switch substituting “Israel” for “Jew”. That is a “assumes facts not in evidence” and it would be impossible to find a better example of one. It would be a valid objection if pulled on person in their prime. You think that is a crap objection when pulled on a woman who is 89 who has had a few drinks at a dinner? It’s fucking elder abuse.
She says who should get out of Palesting “Israel”. Why do you pretend otherwise? Changing definitions/semantics in mid-conversation is objectionable.
Please enlighten us on Israelis being a distinct ethnic group. I was unaware of that and would like a citation. When I speak out against Israelis, I am speaking out against a government and its people who include all voting members, even the dissenters. Is there an acceptable way to refer to that group critically without being racist? I was under the impression that Israelis referred to all citizens who voted, whether Jewish, Islamic, Arab, European, Ethiopian or whatever in origin.
So you are rationalizing in a way that not even she has. She said what she said, the reporter did not pull any Jedi mind tricks on her.
Maybe that’s what she meant, but it’s not obvious at all because she doesn’t say anything like it. When the guy asks her specifically about Jews, she confirms it and doesn’t say anything about any other group. And it seems to me that almost all the “non-indigenous occupiers” in Israel/Palestine would be Jews of American or European ancestry. By definition it excludes Arabs, right? I’m sure non-Jews have emigrated to Israel but by comparison I doubt there are a whole lot of them.
Maybe Helen Thomas should lead by example and go “back” to Lebanon. Filthy American occupier!
Jews, yes, but their ethnicity is incidental. Their ethnicity is not what she takes issue with. Her objection is completely political, not racial.
She doesn’t know to object to it? Maybe that is the reason. If you tried that in a courtroom and didn’t back down you would be spending the night in jail. It is a bullshit rhetorical move and it needs to be called. Her ultimate answer may or may not have been different if the reporter hadn’t done it, but having been an editor for a year and having been a volunteer judge on numerous occasions, I would dress down the reporter for doing it and sustain an objection to it if done in a courtroom.
Israelis and Jews are not coextensive. I am of half Jewish ancestry. (At reunions the Jewish sides of the family do not discuss Israel). I am not even slightly Israeli.
I agree with this although I wouldn’t go as far as calling it elder abuse. She’s an old confused woman (which is probably reason enough for her to retire) and the questioner bamboozled her. Despite the fact that she said some objectionable things, she was ambushed and it wasn’t really fair.
Define “ethnic group” is such a manner so that your definition does not cover Israeli Jews. Shared language? Check. Shared religion? Check. Shared history? Check. Genetic relations? Check. Cultural dynamism? Check and check. We certainly have little in common with other Jewish communites.
As for criticising ethnic groups as a whole - is it permissable? I have no idea. I don’t bother keeping track of these things. I’ll say this: I don’t think Helen Thomas hates Jews, I think she hates Israelis. I also think that that’s just as bad. As an Israeli from birth, why should I care if someone hates me because of my birth, or because of my birth?
Saying that an ethnic group should be exiled from its country is a racial declaration, not a political one.
We agree almost completely on this statement. I don’t know how confused she is. I do know that everyone at 89 is mentally slower than when they were younger (if not dead for years already!). But not necessarily mentally incompetent. I object to the “go back to Poland or Germany part”. I do not object to the come to the US part.
Was she ambushed? Absolutely. Did she say what she did? Absolutely. Would she have said it differently if it had not been an abusive question? We will not know. It was beyond a “gotcha” question, and was actually abusive of her by doing that switch.
She’s saying that people who are (by her lights) invaders should be expelled. Their ethnicity is neither here nor there. Whatever you think of the sentiment (which I’m sure that even she knows is impractical and unreasonable at this point), it’s still a political sentiment, not a racial one.
Ah, the internet: where everything is a clever trick no matter how obvious it is. Thomas has been interviewing people for something like 60 years, but you’re asking me to believe she’s so stupid she didn’t notice this subtle manipulation. I’ll give her a little more credit. I’m not going to call her a Nazi bitch or anything but I don’t think she said anything she didn’t mean because she misunderstood the question.
The interviewed asked her to elaborate on her answer three freaking times, and he even gives her a hint she’s said something offensive by saying “Ooooh. Any better comments?” He does not mention Jews until it’s obvious that’s who she was talking about. Unless you can think of some other group of people who might’ve immigrated to Israel from Germany and Poland.
The excuses increase in lameness. She fucked up and said something stupid. Nobody made her do anything.
Who is Israel? How do you get a country out of another country and send “them” back to three other countries?
I asked a serious question as to whether there is a scholarly ethnic group of “Israelis” and if you had a cite.
I resent Israelis because of what they are doing to the Palestinians. I do not resent them because of their birth. I resent them because they have done all these things in the name of protecting Jews when I get the distinct feeling that they do not care about any Jews but themselves. I resent Israelis because their conduct whips up Anti-Semitic hatreds by people who do not make a distinction between Jews and Israelis. It puts me and my future generations in danger because what Hitler did can happen again.
And you say for the first time that I have ever heard that Israelis are an ethnic group, where I have only seen before a political group. I am skeptical because I have seen before that you will use any rhetorical device or trick to do what you deem to be defending Israel.
So I ask again, is this a scholarly studied ethnic group, or an ethnic group you have pulled out of your hat as an arguing device? Or something else.
Cause I resent Israelis the political group, not an ethnic group.