This is what I hear the Hassidim from the Mitzvah Van asking people on 42nd Street. Got me to thinking: I am of Jewish ancestry, but I’m an atheist. So, would Jews still consider me to be “Jewish” even though I disavow any religion? One friend says, “Well, you’re still Jewish enough for Hitler to have killed . . .”
I guess it depends if you view ‘Jew’ as a race or a religion. I always thought of it as a religion when I was kid but now I realize that some people consider it a race. I wonder which the person asking the question considers it to be?
Oh, isn’t that nice… seems to me kinda like saying to a light-skinned Black man “Well, you’re still Black enough to be put to work in the fields.”
IANAJ, but I would think that the answer to the question would be based on asking yourself, “What, to me, makes someone Jewish?” and then asking “Do I meet those criteria?” As a corollary, you could ask the Mitzvah Van folks the same question (what is the Mitzvah Van, anyway?) and then see if you meet their criteria.
All in all, I don’t think you can say “No, other Jews won’t think you Jewish if you disavow any religion” unless that happens to be their litmus test for being Jewish. Religion, like any other human creation, is subject to endless interpretation and revision, and the harder you try to nail solid criteria for qualifications down, the more elusive the goal will get.
" . . . seems to me kinda like saying to a light-skinned Black man ‘Well, you’re still Black enough to be put to work in the fields.’"
—Insulting, but accurate. Some slave states had the “one drop of black blood” rule.
As far as religion . . . One Jewish friend said I was being insulting to “real Jews” by referring to myelf as Jewish when I don’t believe in religion. Another friend said that I came off like a self-hating Jew if I denied being Jewish. Ya can’t win for losin’. Me? I consider myself to be “culturally Jewish.”
Oh, the Mitzvah Van is a big ol’ music-playin’ van fulla Hassidim that goes around town reminding Jews to be Jewisher.
Kind of on-topic…
a friend of mine was at a SF convention. He went swimming with some friends and was on his way back up to his room, when he was approached by several men in suits. They asked him, “Are you Jewish? We want to have services this morning, but we need one more for a minion.” (da rules say you have to have a certain number (a minion) of circumsized, bar mitzvah’d guys before you can take out the Torah and hold services).
He said yes, and went up to change, then went to services. It didn’t occur to him until later to wonder, how the hell did they know he was Jewish? He was wearing a t-shirt and swimsuit, just like all the other guys. Why did they single him out? I said he shouldn’t have been wearing a speedo…
Anyway. That night he called his mom and said “Guess what I did at the SF convention this morning!”
Well, I’ve been told that in order to truly be considered a Jew, your mother must be Jewish. But as far as whether you’re practicing or not, I really don’t know. My boyfriend is a non-practicing agnostic Jew (well, he attends family gatherings around the holidays, much like I, an athiest, celebrate Christmas) but he calls himself Jewish because he was raised as one, so it seems to be more of a cultural definition for him. In short: beats the hell outta me, pass the matzo.
Uh, I believe the term is “Jewier”. Now, 15% more Jewy!
Also, the thread title just made me think of the old cornball joke my dad used to tell…you know the one.
Eve - Your mother’s Jewish? You haven’t actively converted to something else? Then you’re Jewish.
At least, that’s generally the Israeli point of view. We tend to be more tribal about it than Americans.
I’m about as far from being a Jew as it’s humanly possible to be (WASP central checking in), but I believe the word you want is minyan.
Of course, if I’m spelling it wrong too, then people really will point and laugh at the goyim.
“Your mother’s Jewish? You haven’t actively converted to something else? Then you’re Jewish.”
—Well, my Mom’s a “Jewish atheist,” too. How does one actually “convert” to atheism?
I don’t know if, factually, there’s a correct answer to this. The orthodox, who most likely all believe in God, probably think that calling yourself Jewish without that belief is wrong. But I wouldn’t be surprised if they believe the same thing I was taught: you don’t have to believe in God to consider yourself Jewish.
Unlike Christianity, we do not need to accept Jesus as our Lord Savior. We do not need to even believe in God. We just are. If you converted, you’re Jewish. If your mother was Jewish, you’re Jewish. End of discussion.
I suppose it does relate to being culturally Jewish. Judaism is Judaism. It’s not just a religion, it’s who you are.
Also, Ethilrist, the number for a minion is 10.
Why can’t you lie to them? I have told excessively evangelical Christians I was Jewish if I thought it would shut them up. (BTW, it doesn’t. It just makes you a bigger prize.) Since the Hassidim seem more exclusive than inclusive, an Evangelical Hassid sounds like an oxymoron, so saying you aren’t Jewish isn’t denying your heritage as much as taking a tactful tack that most people would not merely accept, but emulate.
There is no way you could be Jewish enough to make those guys happy, anyway.
Oh, good heavens, Drop, you didn’t think I was trying to be TACTFUL? You know me better than that.
I was just curious as to whether I was still considered a “Jew” by others.
The purpose of the “Mitzvah Tank”, as it is known, is to foster the arrival of the moshiach (messiah). AFAIK, the upshot is this: when all of the world’s Jews are performing mitzvahs (per MW–1 : a commandment of the Jewish law; 2 : a meritorious or charitable act) at the same time, then the Moshiach will appear and save Israel, etc.
In other words, when all of God’s chosen people are doing His will, they will be saved. The Mitzvah tank is where the Jew on the Street can take a few minutes to pray, etc., and help further this goal.
I could be wrong, but that’s how it was explained to me.
FWIW, any Jewish guy age 13 and over is “bar mitzvah’d;” there is no special ceremony require to confer the status of being bar mitzvah. While a party often celebrates the occasion, I’ve noticed some people confuse the party, or the first reading of the Scroll, with the actual attainment of bar mitzvah.
- Rick
IANAJ and have no idea what the Hassidim would think, but…
According to some sources I’ve seen, you’re Jewish if your mother is Jewish (as long as you’ve never converted to another religion) or if you’ve converted to Judaism. According to those sources, you would be Jewish because you’ve not converted. (They generally state that lack of belief in and/or nonpractice of the Jewish religion doesn’t change your status.)
Others suggest that persons in your situation who are ethnically(?) Jewish but don’t believe in/practice Judaism should call themselves “of Jewish descent”, thereby showing the lack of religious adherence.
So, as to whether any particular group or individual considers you “Jewish” - it depends.
IOW, tell 'em whateverdahell ya wanna! 
Actually, I have never known you to be anything but gracious and ladylike. I really don’t know how you survive in NYC.
Then I guess I’m out of luck, too!
Wait, this is the Mitzvah Tank, right? The one filled with obnoxious, proselytizing idiots, right? There’s only one valid answer, for anyone, at any time:
NO.
This from my best friend in NY, a man who was raised Orthodox and is still pretty observant. He says it with glee.
Here’s the response I use, which even the guys in the truck seem to enjoy: “Baby, I ain’t even MONOTHEISTIC.”
Most of my Jewish college buddies were atheistic or at least non-observant, but by golly they referred to themselves as being Jewish. Most of my Jewish friends now (in New York City) seem to be a little more interested in the faith than those guys 20 years ago, though.
If I want to split hairs, I add nationalism…Jerry’s a Polish Jew, Rachel’s a Russian Jew, Ruth’s a German Jew, etc. My friend David visited Moscow a few years ago to get into his Russian roots, and his statemnt of “Hi! I’m Russian!” got the response “No…you’re a Jew.”
I’m currently reading Arthur Schnitzler’s 1908 novel THE ROAD INTO THE OPEN, which addresses contemporary Viennese anti-Semitism, nascent Zionism, and what-is-it-that-makes-a-Jew-a-Jew stuff. I won’t go so far as to call it an absorbing read, but it’s…interesting.
[SIMPSONS HIJACK]
Family on bus in lower Manhattan. Bart spots three Hassidim on corner: “Look, ZZ-Top” opens window to yell “You guys rock!”
Bearded man: “Eh, maybe a little”
[/HIJACK]
My guess is the Mitzvah van was not blaring La Grange