Help a lurker/European Trip

In My Humble Opinion
21

Probably about 75% of the people you meet will speak enough English to conduct simple transactions. I personally found phrase books most useful for figureing out what gelato flavor I ordered (eat lots of gelato!). Travelling in a country where you don’t speak the language is a lot easier than it seems. Figure out the words for “thank you”, “please”, “excuse me” and “Two tickets” and you’ll be pretty much set. If you speak any romance languages that will also help a lot. One thing that they will appreciate is always try to start in their language or ask if they speak English. Don’t just walk up to people and start jabbering in English- even if you are reasonably sure they speak it.

FWIW, I adored Cinque Terra. Although it’d be hard to choose it over Venice, it was my favorite part of Italy.

22

Hmn. The worst hotel experience in my life I had in Italy, too. I suspect that in the bigger cities you get what you pay for, and bad is really bad…roaches, brown-stained-toilets, light-won’t-work, bedlinnen-in-rags, ancient-springs-touch-ground kind of bad. :eek:

23

I was lucky enough to spend a weekend in Rome curtesy of my company, and it was awesome. I spent the whole time walking around the old centre and it blew my mind. Can’t recommend it enough, although bear in mind that tourists are the natural prey of Romans - it’s the only place I’ve ever had my wallet lifted.
Paris is a really nice place too, but again I’ve only been there for the odd weekend. Overall, I think your itinerary 2 is a better bet. Don’t underrate Germany and the other northern european countries though. Stockholm is my favourite city, and in June/July it is at its very finest. Cologne, Stuttgart, Maastricht, Prague - all are worth visiting. Plan to come back soon!

For the language thing, I recommend you get the relevant phrasebooks and copy out some useful phrases for each country on paper. That way you can more quickly find the relevant saying, and also show them to people who can’t understand your accent.

As per even sven, a few phrases like “is this the right way to…” “can you show me where to find…” “toilet”, “railway station” etc is good enough to get by with. And for the love of og, follow his advice about not starting straight into english, especially in Paris :eek: . You’ll find people perfectly pleasant and polite enough provided you remember this. Very often people speak perfectly comprehensible english, but are embarrassed because they do not feel fluent in it, and therefore do not like being forced into it. Mangling a few phrases in the local language makes it clear that you’re OK with grammatical errors and sounding like a fool etc, and will usually respond with them demonstrating their own foreign-language skills. Generally they will be superior to yours but not always, particularly in country areas.

I have rarely had severe problems and I’ve been all over europe but make sure anything important (such as hotel addresses etc.) are written down so you can show them to people. I once spent five minutes trying to get a Barcelona taxi driver to take me to the Hilton. Turns out they pronounce H totally differently. Also, depending on how strong a regional US accent you have, people may struggle to comprehend you, in which case, write it down since they may be able to read it perfectly easily.

My final piece of advice is one I wheel out endlessly - be prepared to WALK and walk A LOT. The best way to see compact, historic european cities is on foot, and pounding the pavement for several hours a day is hard work, even if you stop at a pavement cafe every now and again. Walking from La Madelaine to the Eiffel Tower is more than most yanks would attempt, but it’s way better (and cheaper) than taking the Metro. Ditto for going from the Spanish Steps to the Vatican.

24

I know, I know :slight_smile: - If there’s one thing these posts have taught me so far, it’s that I’m not spending NEARLY enough time there/seeing enough places.

Great point, and well taken. I’m going to make a piece of paper for each area, with important phrases and such. Will there be a dialect issue in Italy (sorry, I really have no idea…)?
Any GOOD experiences in Italian hotels? Care to drop names? Do they have some of the bigger American chains there, like Hilton? Or does that ruin the feel?

Thanks,
-Matt

25

I need to do a quick drive-by posting here, but you left out Venice…imho the 2nd most beautiful place in the world, behind Paris. Since you’re going witth a g/f, all the more reason.

I’d skip Florence. and replace with Venice, even though they’re on different coasts.

And since you’ve been to London, as I have 3 times for other reasons, I’d think of maybe spending more time in France, anywhere and blowing off London. Or go to Edinburgh or Ireland instead.

26

I’ll drive by again. If you’re deadset on Florence, see if you can arrive at 8am or something, and then leave at night. I know someone will kill me for this, but you can do it in a day if you hurry. Go see David first, then go to the center and see the church where seemingly everyone is buried or went to (Da Vinci(?), Michaelangelo(?) etc…) and the Square–feed the pigeons and take a pic. The museum there is just ok, not as good as others might think, but I was all museumed out by then. If you’re going to Paris first, don’t even bother with the Florence museum. It would barely rank in the top 10 of Paris. (Don’t miss Rodin’s in Paris)

Then go to Venice. So beautiful I cried when I stepped off the boat. Pictures don’t do it justice. But be warned, especially in the summer you will not believe how many tourists are there. Probably more per square foot than anywhere I’ve been–and they all wear NY Yankee hats(ugh).

You have to have a lemon gelato while there. The place in the FLorence center is really good. And the Vatican is amazing, even if you’re not Catholic I bet. I’ve heard many good things about Cinque Terre and Portofino, wish I could go.

27

Two summers ago my partner and I took a two week vacation that we absolutely loved: Barcelona (3 days) with a day trip to Montserrat – overnight train to Milan (1 day) – Venice (3 days) – Rome (5 days) with a day trip to Pompei. If you substitute Florence for Milan, I think you would have a terrific itinerary. (We only went to Milan because I am an opera buff.) Don’t skip Venice or Rome, though.

Having been born in Germany and returned numerous times to visit grandparents and other family, I have toured Germany (east and west), Austria and Switzerland fairly extensively – and I love those areas. However, to introduce my partner to a really intense cultural and culinary experience, I felt that Italy was a great way to plunge right in. The cities are close enough, too, that you don’t feel like you are travelling excessively. Too much train riding can be tiring/boring.

Barcelona was a good first stop because, in addition to having a nice medieval section of town and interesting artistic venues (Picasso museum, Gaudi sites), the presence of the Olympics seems to have made travel around there much more organized and much less shocking to a first time tourist than, say, dealing with a transit strike in Rome! IMHO.

On the other hand, Prague is amazing and Brussels incredibly charming – you wouldn’t go wrong with either of those.

28

I wouldn’t bother with chains. You can find good lodging at a pensione or a bed & breakfast. We found some inexpensive, but nice private rooms by searching through the www dot hostels dot com site (even though they are listed as hostels, you don’t have to stay in a dorm style establishment!). We liked B&B Rota in Venice (if I’m remembering that correctly). Not fancy, but in a neat old building, close to everything, and clean. Consult guide books and search the internet for interesting, but safe and inexpensive lodging.

I know you said you have plently of money saved, but don’t underestimate how expensive places like Venice can be during the high season. We (the two of us together) managed to get by on 100 Euros + lodging per day, but we did have to skip a few things. A gondola ride can run you around 100 Euros (unless you talk them down) and museum/venue prices can really add up!

Finding a grocery to buy breakfast and lunch items can save you tons of money and allow you to splurge for a nice dinner.

29

I don’t really know Italy either, but I believe there is a very big difference in spoken dialect between the far north and south - sorta like between Massachusetts and Missouri. However the written form is the same - I’ve had this issue in France, because oddly enough my French classes only taught me how to understand French spoken by Parisians and English people :smack:, hence the need for a pen and paper.

Hilton, Intercontinental, Best Western and many other US brands operate in Italy, however there is a great deal of variation in the ‘localisation’ and quality because a lot of the properties are franchises, or independents that only sign up for access to the booking and management system. In general, Hilton and the like will be fine but a little expensive and bland. If you can narrow down the location, dates and budget a little I will have a word with a couple of my colleagues - they should be able to give some good advice, even though they mainly focus on business travel.

30

I’m no real Italy expert but I think that’s not quite correct. Italy definetely does seem to have dialects that are competely different both spoken and written. I bought a CD of traditional music in Italy from the south were the booklet had the lyrics in the dialect, in English and in standard Italian. Similarly, my Roman friend told me he could not really understand what a Neapolitan band we went to see were singing about. IIRC this is because Italy was only unified fairly recently and was a bunch of separate regions before that. If some or any of this is wrong, feel free to set me straight but that’s the impression I’m under.

However, I think every Italian will speak the standard Italian (though possibly with an accent) next to their dialect. If you learned some standard Italian I’m sure you’d be understood and able to understand people fine. And as has already been said before, a few polite words and lots of gesturing and smiling will get you quite far.

31

Eh, I am being too imprecise again. What I should have said is that there are full-on regional dialects, plus strong regional accents, but that everyone can read/write standard Italian even if their pronunciation is a bit non-standard. In the same way that natives of Boston and St Louis might both struggle to speak to an Italian tourist with limited English, and could both write pages of local slang that would also be incomprehensible, but should be able to communicate via a list of basic written English (I would hope). In fact, this is a pretty good analogy for a lot of countries. Even in England you get some pretty crazy variations in how people speak that baffle me. And my other half is from Limburg in the Netherlands, where they speak a local dialect that is a sort of bastard cross-breed of Dutch and German with random other stuff added.

32

Tell me about it. I’m from Limburg too! Really.

And yes, I agree completely with the rest of your post.

33

I’ll also heartily recommend Rick Steve’s “Europe Through the Back Door” book. There are some great tips there in there.

My wife and I took two trips similar to what you’re planning (the home page linked through my profile has pictures if you are interested in seeing us at some of the places you mentioned).

Some advice:

London: never been there, but its likely going to be the most expensive part of the trip b/c of the exchange rates. You may want to consider France alone and get to other places, such as Colmar/Alsace (very germanic) and Chamonix (especially if you ski, or want to see some incredible mountains).

Plan your itinerary in advance to maximize your time available to see stuff. You’ll be using the train systems in either France or Italy - both have schedules posted in English on their websites.

Both France or Italy - buy a museam pass the minute you get there. Its more economical than paying to get into each museam individually, and will automatically get you to the front of the line in most places. Its a great time saver.

Consider also buying a Eurorail train pass - its the only way to get from place to place, and again more economical than buying individual tickets if you’ll be seeing a lot of either France or Italy. Some passes come with a day or two of car rental - this is a necessity if you hope to see a lot in the South of France or Tuscany.

Fly “open-jaw”: in one city, out another. It should be the same cost, and will prevent you from wasting a day backtracking to your point of origin.

www.venere.com is a great website to scope out hotels/places to stay anywhere in Europe. You can search by local, rating, cost, etc.

If you really want to maximize your time, plan train rides overnight and sleep in a cuchette (typically, you’ll be splitting a car with fold out beds with 2-4 other people). I personally didn’t enjoy the experience b/c I am a very light sleeper, but it was doable. Be sure to bring luggage locks to protect your stuff.

Some opinions:

Rome is great for the history, but we tired of the pace/noise. You can see most of the good attractions in 3-4 days.

The Almafi coast (south of Rome, near Naples) is very nice. Sorrento, Positano and Capri are beautiful seaside/island towns. You pass through Pompeii to get there, which was also cool. Stay away from Naples - its a wreck.

The Cinque Terre is also beautiful. Its served by trains, and you can hike all 5 towns within a day. Its incredibly beatiful (often referred to as the “poor mans Riviera”. While you’re near there, consider the Lake Como/Bellagio area. Also beautiful.

Florence and Venice were both great with plenty to do, but we enjoyed Tuscany the most. However, you’ll need a car to get around there. Its really not too bad to drive in country. Ditto for S. France - you’ll want a car to really see it, and the country roads are fine for novice drivers (don’t take it personally if you get honked at :slight_smile:

You can literally spend a month in Paris and not see it all, so prioritize.

To be honest, I enjoyed our France trip a little more than Italy, but both were great. France seemed a little more “tourist accessible” to me, but neither country was a hassle.

I did feel like we had to be a little more cautious in Italy from scams and pickpockets. (if someone flashes a badge and demands to see your ID, just walk away) - all police there must be in uniform when on duty. This is a common scam to get you to take out your wallet (speaking of which, get a money belt that cinches inside your pants around your waist - its the safest way to carry cash/ids).

34

Don’t stay at an American chain. There are plenty of charming bed and breakfast’s that will become a part of your trip, not just a place to go at night. If you have the money, you can find places with antique furniture, gorgeous old buildings, friendly local staff that will help you find the best things in the city, and wonderful food. Some of these places are just as facinating as the museums and palaces you will be visiting.

I wouldn’t get a Eurail pass for Italy. Usually you have to pay a reservation free to use it in Italy, and that isn’t much cheaper than just buying the ticket itself. Train travel is inexpensive in Italy. You also have to keep in mind that the faster trains (like what you’ll likely take from Paris to Italy) arn’t covered by a pass. Personally, I would do the Paris-Italy journey overnight if you think you’ll be able to sleep on it.

For money, if you have a four-digit PIN code, your ATM card should work everywhere and offers decent exchange rates. It’s a much better plan than lugging a bunch of traveller’s checks around and having to exchange them at unfavorable rates or carrying around a lot of cash. Hide enough money on your body (in your shoe, etc) to get to the place that your plane leaves from just in case. Make sure to call your bank beforehand and let them know you are travelling so they don’t flag your card as stolen and cancel it. Make sure your girlfriend also carries some money and an ATM card in case you two get seperated.

joemama24_98 is right that you should take security precautions. Although you are probably much safer on a European street than an American one, tourists are an easy target and it only takes losing your documents once to ruin your trip.

Try to be inconspicuous. Wear dark walking shoes (no sneakers! especially white ones!), long pants, and something nicer than a logo tee shirt. For your girlfriend, I find just-below-the-knee skirts work best when travelling in hot climates. If she wears a tank top, she should carry a light sweater or shawl for visiting churches (you’ll find dozens that you’ll want to pop in to just walking around.) When you have to open a map or guidebook, duck in to a cafe or find a quiet alcove to do it in. Walk like you know where you are going.

Keep your plane ticket, passport and money in a moneybelt, ideally a slashpoof one with steel cables running through the belt. Anything else is pretty much worthless. Theives have ways of dealing with wallet in front pockets, neck pockets, inner jacket pockets, etc. Keep your documents with you when you go out if your hotel does not have a safe. Hotel housekeeping isn’t a well-paid job.

Don’t take anything you don’t intend to lose. Keep your nicest camera, video camera, iPod, etc. at home. Travel has a way of destroying things and you’ll have a better time if you arn’t worrying about your stuff. Buy some small luggage locks for your luggage and any day packs you’ll carry. The idea isn’t to ward off theives, it’s to make you less attractive than the guy walking around without luggage locks. If you don’t have locks, twist ties around the zippers are nearly as good.

Any of the budget guidebooks should clue you in on common scams.

35

[q]For money, if you have a four-digit PIN code, your ATM card should work everywhere and offers decent exchange rates.[/q]
Italian ATMs appear to expect a 6-digit PIN - but you can just enter your four digits, press enter (i.e. the green button!), and it’ll work. Most of the time.

36

In Florence we stayed at a pensione called Pablo House. The guy that runs it has worked for many years in the hotel industry and speaks ok English. He gets a little chatty when’s he drunk, and starts telling you at length how tourism is the lifeblood of Florence, but other than that he’s on the level. It’s only about 5-10 rooms but really spotless (the first thing I noticed is that you could eat off the floors) with private bathrooms including showers and good security. Location is good, a reasonable walk from the train station, Uffizi, and Florence leather market.

Officially its a bed and breakfast but we got out of paying for breakfast somehow. Maybe because we paid upfront, in cash for several days. :shrug: Don’t forget to haggle! A few sites list a price of 80Euro for two people but then again I read various blogs of people talking Pablo down to E20. I think if he isn’t busy he has a “bird-in-hand” approach! We stayed 5 days and negoitiated a rate slightly less (per 2 people) than a nearby dorm-style youth hostel. This was before the Euro but we were on a tight budget so it can’t have been much.

I can’t find the number but I did find the address:
Via del Porcellana 14, Firenze - Florence , 50123

37

Hey everyone,

Wow! I didn’t realize I would keep getting so many responses to this, and the email alerts were getting filed as spam in my mail program! I didn’t mean to abandon/ignore anyone!

All your tips are EXTREMELY valuable to us- my SO and I have made a backpack page (www.backpackit.com) to kind of organize our thoughts, and what everyone has saying. It’s been extremely useful- we’re filing things away as tips and tricks, specific location suggestions, book suggestions, and other helpful things to remember.

I think we’ve decided that we MUST see Venice, Florence, and Rome. Even if one is “better” than the others, it seems ridiculous to think that any are bad, or not worth seeing. I get the impression you all agree- the reason it’s so hard is because they’re all fabulous.

Here’s the new plan, we think:

3-4 Paris
2-3 Venice
2-3 Florence
2-3 Rome

I think we might drop the idea of Cinque Terra/Portofino, as beautiful as it sounds- we think Venice may be even more beautiful, and all together a better place to visit. If we can extend the trip a couple days, we will, and Cinque Terra would be the #1 priority to add.

We like the idea of staying away from chains, and finding some real hidden gems. In London, I stayed in a hotel called the Washington Mayfair, which, to my American eyes, seemed a million miles away from the typical US chain experience. This definitely improved the overall trip.

I don’t think we want to spend many breakfasts in the hotel we’re staying at- isn’t it better to use that time to explore local pastry shops, and other small eateries?

I’ve been thinking a lot about the money thing, and need to explore all my options. Being able to use my ATM card w/ pin would be great, but I have a feeling I’ll get hit with TONS of fees- I guess I have some more research to do.

I’ll come back here monday and let you all know what the travel agent (who, by the way, is a family friend- I’m not afraid I’m getting ripped off, and there’s certainly no problem with booking some things myself) says.

Again, we REALLY appreciate everyone’s comments so far- keep them coming!
-Matt

38

Well, it depends on whether you’re morning people who are up for new experiences first thing in the morning. But I am certainly a big fan of locla delicacies, although you may wish to consider whether your other half has the necessary willpower to resist the CAKES :eek:

Normally not a problem in my experience, but I am with a UK bank and I have no idea what US banks are like - wouldn’t surprise me if they pluck you like a goose. Call your branch and ask, or even better, get it in writing. Remember to do it just before you go, otherwise they may change the rules and catch you out. Also check with your various credit cards what their rules are. Normally plastic is a better bet than changing cash, since that will normally just get you stitched up with a huge comission or a terrible rate or both (no commission currency exchange is a lie - they just bury their fee in the rate spread they charge) and then leave you with a giant pile of cash to worry about afterwards. I don’t think you’ll need much cash anyhow, since most places take plastic of some kind - you should only need it for taxis, coffees, and other incidentals. Bear in mind that some places may want a debit (check) card with PIN instead of a credit card+ signature.

39

I have absolutely no idea why on earth you would actually want to be going around Italy resisting cakes.

In my experience the typical Italian breakfast was a cornetto (Sort of a croissant, often with stuff in it. Stuff often being Nutella.) or something similarly sweet and light and a coffee or cappuchino. France is about the same: coffee and a croissant. So it depends on whether you like your breakfast that way or whether you need more sustenance. Mind you, your lunch may very well end up being enormous so a light pastry breakfast is not that bad a bet IMO.

40

I’ve used my Bank of America ATM card all over several countries and I’ve never been hit with any unreasonable fees. I think I got charged five bucks once in Guatemala but that is all that has every raised my eyebrows. None of the frequent travellers/expats I know bother to do it any other way.

One thing I would do is make sure you know if your hotels take credit or not. If it does not and you are staying for a while, you may end up with a bill that is higher than your daily ATM withdrawal limit. Lots of places take credit cards, but a lot of the less-touristy establishments do not, so don’t count on it- especially in smaller restraunts. Always make sure you can cover the bill.

Your hotel breakfast will, invariably, be a pastry and coffee, most likely from a local bakery. I’ve found this is a pleasant pause, a way to steel myself for the day ahead, a good chance to chat with the owner (ask them where they go out to dinner), and nothing that will get in the way of me seeking out…well…some more pastries and coffee. Anyway, European travellers expect breakfast and you can be suspicious of hotels that don’t serve it. Elevators are uncommon in modest buildings (around four stories) and you may have to trudge up a lot of stairs to get to your room.

There is a chance that you will get traveller’s diarrhea. It’s not from bad food. It’s just from a different flora than your used to. If this happens, it will likely happen around your third day in a new country. I wouldn’t plan long train journeys for those days.

Take a multivitamin because your eating habits will change and may end up unbalanced. You will be out in the heat a lot and air conditioning is not very common. Put on sunscreen (don’t forget the tops of your feet) and carry around a water bottle you can refill from the many public fountains in Italy- the water is fine. Learn to recognize the signs of heat exhausten and keep out of the sun during the hotest parts of the day. It’s easy to get in an altered state when travelling and not notice how the heat and all that walking around is affecting you until too late. Get rest when you need to- don’t worry about “fitting it all in” when your body is telling you that you need some downtime. Be sure to plan in some time each day for resting/exploring/doing something you hadn’t planned on and a couple totally free days throughout your trip to sleep in, take leisurly strolls, and not worry about the sights.

In early afternoon in Italy, all the shops close up for siesta. You’d be wise to head back to the hotel and take a nap yourself at this time. It provides much-needed rest and will get you out of the worst heat of the day. Besides, nothing will be open. Keep this in mind when planning mealtimes (Italians eat late dinners), and stash a few snacks in your hotel because otherwise you’ll be out of luck if you get hungry during these hours.

Bathrooms may surprise you. The flushing mechnism on toilets may not be easily discerned. It’s not uncommon for the shower to simply be a showerhead in the wall and a drain on the floor and for the spray to go all over everything- toilet and all. Even nice bed and breakfasts may have limited hot water hours. You may also find a bidet in your bathroom. The idea behind it is to use the stream of water to wash your dirty parts- your behind after wiping, your genitals after lovemakeing, and the inner thigh area and armpits whenever. It can be good for freshening up before dinner after a hot sweaty day of walking around. There is a chance you’ll encounter a squat toilet (basically a hole in the ground). These are not as difficult as it seems. Drop trou, squat (keep your balance towards your heels, not your toes) over the hole, and bombs away. Also, don’t use train bathrooms in the station- they empty on to the tracks.

Dining habits are a little different in Italy. Tap water is not usually served at the table- they will bring you bottles and you may have trouble getting water you don’t have to pay for. Usually they will ask you if you want fizzy water or not (fizzy is standard), so try to figure out when they as you that if you have a preference. Dinner is expected to last a while and they will not give you your check until you ask for it. Service will probably be a bit slower than you are used to. Pasta is generally not considered a main dish there, and the pizza is a different creatures entirely. If you’d like dessert but can’t handle it, a bowl of fruit can usually be ordered and is a good way to end a meal.