I'm finally going to EUROPE! Help me plan...

In My Humble Opinion
1

So I finally scraped up some money and found a friend to see Europe with. This is the last studenty summer I’ll ever get, so this is the perfect time to go, and I’m so excited I could burst. So, Dopers who’ve been there and done that - got any advice for a naive Canadian 24 year old girl heading off to explore what lies across the sea?

We’re trying to do everything as cheaply as possible, and we’re planning on doing the backpacking & rail pass thing to get around, and we’ll stay in youth hostels along the way.

The cities we want to visit are London, Amsterdam, Prague, Vienna, Rome, Marseille, and Paris. We’d also like to see some of Germany if we can manage it, and maybe Florence, but we’ve only got about 20 days (end July to mid-August).

So what’s to see in these cities besides the postcard tourist things (and which of those are really overrated and not worth more than a glance)? How can we eat for very little money and not starve too much? What must we experience in these places? We’d like to have a little hike in the Alps if we can manage it… forgive my stupidity here, but where exactly is a good place to do that?

Any anecdotes or advice are welcome! I want to soak up as much Europe as I can this summer!

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Hey, congratulations! I’m sure you’ll have fun.

I can only advise you about Florence. I had to chime in because this is my one and only piece of insider knowledge. If you go there, you will probably want to go to the Uffizi, which has some of the most famous paintings in the world, including Boticelli’s “Birth of Venus” (Venus on the half shell?) and “La Primavera”. So anyway, you’ll notice the line out to the back of beyond just to get in and think, Hey! I don’t want to spend 3 hours of my precious European vacation standing in line!.

My super clever husband noticed a sign by an open door that said “reservatzioni” (or something like that). It turns out you can make reservations, buy your tickets, come back in a few days and waltz past the masses in line right on in.

My brother reported on his trip several years later that this was still possible and that it worked at the Accademia museum (where Michaelanelo’s “David” resides) as well.

There you go. My sum total of travellers’ lore. Have a great trip!

3

Well, for the first 4 cities on your list…BEER!!! Hit the pubs. You’ll make new friends and get to drink real beer, as opposed to the swill served in this hemisphere. Personally I’d skip Marseilles. A port city is a port city. Big whoop. Save the time and money and spend more time in Tuscany (Florence). If you want a little hike in the Alps, head for Salzburg. Pretty town, nice people, amazing scenery.

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This is slightly off-topic from the OP but I have always thought it is best to avoid the main tourist areas. Many of them have little more to offer by visiting in person than viewing in photographs and on television. You could go see all the usual tourist places, returning with pictures of various monuments and tourist attractions that both you and your friends have seen a thousand times in pictures and on television or you could go slightly off the beaten track and experience the true nature of the country you are visiting rather than the tourist-oriented facade that the main attractions offer. If you want see what other countries and their cultures are really like (which I presume is why you wan’t to come to Europe) then the cities you mentioned may not offer you the best insight.

If it were me planning a trip to America I would be more interested in what there is to see in the less tourist-oriented places, free from tacky memorabilia and false impressions.

Still, this is only my opinion, you may be wanting to see the sights you have seen in postcards with your own two-eyes which is surely going to be a great trip but like I said, to get a real sense of the different cultures and ways of life offered by the many countries in Europe you would be well rewarded by going down the road less travelled.

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Congratulations!

Sounds like a full schedule for twenty days.

The backpack/rail pass/youth hostel thing is the way to go. I haven’t paid for a hotel room since about…

:: ponders ::

…1985? (That can’t be right. Hmm…)

Some random notes from my trip in 2000…

When I was in Europe, the Eurailpass was NOT good for Britain. It did get me a healthy discount on the Channel Tunnel train though, and since London was my final fly-home-from destination, having no further rail pass did not matter.

The Eurailpass also got me a discount on a berth on the ship between Helsinki and Stockholm.

For two nights I paid the extra for a berth (a roomette, actually) on a night train. That freed me of finding a place to stay, and got me to the new city early. (Too early… I remember blearily wandering around Frankfurt train station at six in the morning looking for something to eat, or at least wake up around…)

When I got to Paris, I was sitting on the square in front of Notre Dame cathedral calling hostels for a place to sleep; one said, “We’ll hold a bed for you if you can get here in 45 minutes.” Fortunately, finding my way across the city by Metro wasn’t that hard. I did get lost on the surface streets after exiting the Metro, though, and I had to call the hostel for directions. It was less than five minutes away. (My cellphone came in handy, even at the exhorbitant roaming rates.)

One of the most confusing things to me about the old cities in Europe, expecially Paris and London, was the lack of a grid system of streets to orient oneself. Here in Toronto at least, we’re so used to giving a major intersection on the grid as a point of reference, that not being able to do so takes some getting used to. It’s not just the intersections that are important (one can give a major intersection in London or Paris just as easily), but the built-in reference to north and south, east and west, that the grid streets give to the form of the built-up city. I came out of that Metro station in Paris and I had no idea what direction I was facing or where the streets were going.

A compass comes in handy, indeed.

Some of the Paris Metro cars had doors that had to be unlatched by hand when you went to exit. It wasn’t hard, though; you frobbed the handle and the doors sort of sprang open. (They closed by themselves). During the first couple of stops I watched other people doing it, and I picked it up quickly.

I can also add that a hospitality exchange worked for me; it may not be to your taste. But I got to stay in Copenhagen for free!

Food: eating can become expensive, especially if you eat at fast-food places. Or good restaurants, for that matter. At youth hostels, there are often kitchens where you can prepare the food that you bought yourself. Much cheaper, if you want to do the preparation and washing-up, as well as lug the cooking-utensils around.

My trip was before 9/11 and all that, so I don’t know how the security hassles around going from Canada to Europe have changed, especially regarding carry-on baggage.

Bring water to drink on the plane. It can get pretty dry, and you can only drink so much cola.

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Good tip about the night trains. I did that a few times just last fall and it worked out quite well. I got to Paris and the Arc de Triomphe just in time to see the sunrise over the Champs Elysees. For about 90 seconds, the sun was shining in under the clouds and there was a perfect, glowing, morning light. It was one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen.

And got to the Eiffel Tower in time to beat the crowds.

Get maps. Near the train stations in most of the cities and towns are information offices, usually marked with a blue circle with a white ‘i’, and they should have a good map of the city. The streets aren’t the uniform grids that most American cities (and the Canadian cities I’ve been to) follow, but once I have a good map I can find anything. And just walking through the cities can be wondrous. I passed a store that had crowds around the windows to see the Christmas decorations. I’ve seen street musicians playing Bach organ pieces on two accordians, or the Pink Panther theme on a bassoon. Know where you’re going, but revel in the things you pass on the way.

Check the info office for other good deals. Berlin had a pass good in almost every museum in town for three days, things like that.

Mix the famous things with the off-the-beaten-path things. I went to Neuschwanstein (the famous castle in the mountains), which is the most popular tourist destination in Germany, and it was great. The first dusting of snow was on the high peaks, the sun came out in the afternoon and I followed a short hiking trail down the ravine after my tour and came out by a meadow with about a dozen cows and the bells around their necks ringing different notes as they shook their heads. And now when I see pictures of it, I know what’s off the edges of the picture, and the fields stretching out to the lake, all that.

(Thinking back, it was probably a huge benefit to do my trip so far off season, and it’ll be more crowded for you. From what I could tell, get to the most popular places very early in the day.)

Walking through the busiest parts of Prague, people will hand you flyers for things. Could be a strip show, could be a classical concert. You can probably skip the Gershwin; great musicians, but Rhapsody in Blue doesn’t work for string quintet and trumpet. Be careful taking a taxi in Prague, they will gouge the tourists.

Any special interests? I may be able to recommend some specific places if you let me know what you like.

And if you go to the technical museum in Vienna, would you pick me up some postcards?

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Miscellaneous tips, from somebody who’s had a lot of long studenty summers to backpack in:

– Twenty days isn’t nearly as long as it sounds, especially when you factor in traveling times, and Europe is a lot bigger than it looks. So plan carefully, sit down with the train timetables and get a general sense of when and how you’re getting from place to place, and be prepared to cut out a city or two if necessary. It’s tempting to cram in too many places, but you should resist that temptation. (Honestly, I just got back from a twenty-day trip to Spain and Portugal, and it felt rushed.)

– For cheap food, keep an eye out for kebab shops, markets, and restaurants located in regular, residential neighborhoods or near universities. Avoid places located in the main tourist areas. Soft drinks are way expensive in Europe (I usually load up on tap water in the morning at the hostel, since water fountains are often scarce), but alcohol is usually a huge bargain, especially in Prague.

– If you go out in the evenings, for God’s sake don’t go to the Irish pub, you’ll just get way overpriced beer and stand around talking to the other English-speaking tourists. (Sorry. Am a bit grumpy about Irish pubs.)

– Set aside more money than you think you’ll need – it helps to have a slush fund to deal with all the incidental and emergency expenses.

– Have some laundry detergent, the powdered kind, on hand, but make sure it’s in a container that cannot possibly leak all over your backpack. (You may recognize the voice of experience talking here.)

– Walk everywhere you possibly can (except when you’ve got your big backpack with you). It’s free, and it’s an excellent way to experience a city.

– A few words of the language go a long way. Learn the phrases you’ll need most often as a tourist (“I’d like a ticket to…” “Do you have any vacancies?” “Where is…?” “Excuse me?” “Thank you,” etc.) and you’ll get major goodwill points, and spend a lot less time being confused. I’m amazed by the number of people who don’t bother to do this. (Amsterdam is an exception. Seriously, everybody speaks English there.)

– A few destination-specific things: Most of the good art in Rome is tucked away in churches, which are (yay!) free. I recommend having a look at the Rick Steves guide to the city, as it’s excellent at telling you where to find stuff. Make sure you eat well, and have lots of gelato, even if you need to splurge a bit.

The Vondelpark HI in Amsterdam is a really excellent hostel, but popular, so it’s worth reserving early. (Amsterdam, BTW, is gorgeous. Best experienced by walking around early in the morning, before the crowds hit.) Everybody goes to the Anne Frank house, but I recommend checking out the Dutch Resistance Museum as well if you’re interested in WWII history.

London: If you’ve got any interest in Shakespeare at all, try to see a play at the Globe, groundling-style. It’s cheap and great fun. Many of the museums are also free (in contrast to everything else, which is almost painfully expensive).

Hope you find some of this useful!

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Thanks for the advice so far. We’ll look into the night trains, because that would save us a little in hostel stays.

While we do want to see some of the cheesy touristy things with our own eyes (although in most cases we’ll just look from far and not bother with lineups to get inside anywhere), we want to experience the little things too. We want to try local foods (and beers!), hear the language, just swim in the new sights and sounds. Anyone who knows of little places that are worth a side trip, please share!

Silenus: Marseille is in the list mainly because it’s the only city in Europe where I know somebody! We’ll probably hop in her car and drive along the coast a bit, which should be fun. And thank you for mentioning Salzburg! That’s the name I was looking for.

Robot Arm: If I pass by there, you betcha. As for special interests, I really love sculpture and architecture. And food. I think I’ll bring a second backpack just to bring chocolate home in.

In most places, do people speak a little English or French? My friend is Czech, so Prague should be fine, but will I have a hard time in, say, Amsterdam or Rome? Should I get a little translation dictionary or something?

9

On my way out of the technical museum (which was very cool for a techie geek like me, by the way) I went to the gift shop. Have you ever seen those paper models of famous buildings, the kind where faces of the building are printed on heavy paper and you cut and fold and glue it together to make the building? They had those shrunk down to postcard size, for dozens of famous European buildings. I figured they were way too small to actually put together, but I bought a couple because I liked them as pictures. But then on the way out I saw they had a display with some of them assembled. Now I want to get all the ones I can and make a miniature Europe on my desk, but I could never find them any other place I looked.

And don’t you dare waste a minute of your vacation looking for them.

Prague is great for architecture. Hradcany Castle overlooks the river. The opera house is on the opposite bank and a couple hundred meters north (that’s upstream, I think) and my friend said that was his favorite building he saw in Europe. Farther along on that same side is one nicknamed the Fred and Ginger building, designed by Frank Gehry. And near the center of town is the old town hall, where a lot of the classical concerts are held, and it’s absolutely beautiful. And if you can get a little out of city to Kutna Hora is a small church decorated with tens of thousands of human bones. It’s supposed to be fascinating, but hard to find.

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Language…

You’ll have little problem finding someone who speaks English, at least if you’re in the touristy zones and the touristy shops. Store staff often lave little language flags on their nametags. Look for the UK flag. :slight_smile:

My trip in 2000 was three weeks long: a week in Helsinki, a week traveling, and a week in London.

In Helsinki my experience was somewhat atypical: I was mostly among Esperanto-speakers, so I spoke very little English… except when I got a garbled phone message (that cellphone again) about my father, and I thought I was going to have to cut the trip short and return home early. It was then that I discovered just how many people speak English in Scandinavia. (Well, then, and when I was dealing with the lost luggage…)

Helsinki, Stockholm, Copenhagen, Frankfurt, Hannover, Paris (and of course London)… I had no problem using English to buy train/ship tickets and accommodation anywhere.

Driving: if you are going to be driving in the south of France, you may want to check out the Viaduc de Millau. Only if you like bridges and/or heights, of course.

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Just a word of warning - many places (restaurants, etc.) are closed in Rome during the month of August and for many places in Italy as that is “holiday” season for them. Try to plan your trip to Rome for the month of July.

Almost all of the places in Rome are within the Central City and within walking distance.

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Watch your purse, especially in major tourist cities. The theives are good at what they do, in Rome especially. For example, around the Trevi fountain, there was a begger asking for money for her baby, while a man working for her would reach into the beggees bag and steal stuff.

Bring fast drying clothing and Woolite. That way, you can pack less. Simply handwash the clothes in a sink with Woolite at night, then hang up to dry and they should be done in the morning.

If you can get to Venice, I strongly recommend it for a day- it’s beautiful. Make sure to feed the pigeons in San Marco’s Square- they sell food for you to handfeed them.

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Oh, and a couple more things:

The drivers are crazy there. Especially those on Mopeds in Rome and Paris. Be careful when crossing the street. I almost got run over many times.

In Paris, buy bagettes. That’s that really good French bread. Once you’ve had the real thing, you’ll never want to go back. Plus, it’s a great, cheap snack for when you’re on the go.

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In Amsterdam, you’re cool. In Rome, it’s a good idea to bring a phrasebook and learn some basics in Italian (if you already know French, you’ll have a head start on deciphering signs and things, but the pronunciation is quite different).

One more thing that I forgot to mention, since I usually travel alone and it kind of goes without saying when you’re alone: Don’t be shy about meeting people, both fellow travelers (who usually have the best tips about where to stay and what to do) and locals. If there are two or more of you traveling together, it’s easy to get caught up in your own little bubble and only talk to each other, but getting to know new people is half the fun.

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You mean like these? Or these Chicago ones? Or some European landmarks? Or anything else from the links on this page?

And if those don’t work, I’m sure a quick google search could turn up what you are looking for.

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Regarding the languages, I did pretty well with just English (and a tiny bit of German), except in Prague. If you stick to the more popular places, you’ll be okay (restaurants with an English version of the menu, etc.); but just a little off the beaten path and it gets tricky. Learn a few phrases, like “Pivo, prosim” and that’ll help a lot.

A lot of the transit there is on the honor system. There’s no turnstile, but there will be a line painted on the floor or something. Beyond that, you have to have a valid ticket, and there are random teams of inspectors checking. (Or so I hear, never did see any.) In a lot of cases you can buy tickets in advance and there’s a machine to timestamp them on your way in and they’re good for a set length of time (90 minutes or so).

Take the trams in Prague. Faster than walking but you’re not buried underground so you can still look around. Get off if you see something interesting, catch the next tram in 10 or 15 minutes. The major stops have maps posted that show all the routes.

Thanks for the links. The one for the Chicago buildings is the sort of thing I was looking for, but the wrong buildings. I found a French site from that links page that’s also pretty similar, and still going through some of the rest.

I’ve googled for this before and didn’t find quite what I was after, but it’s worth another check.

Or do we have any dopers in Vienna?

17

I did the ‘after-high-school-let’s-backpack-through-Europe-thing’. The ‘plan’ was to hitchhike, and only take trains when necessary. Unfortunately, we didn’t think about the probability of two guys with large backpacks getting rides. We should have bought a Eurrail Pass.

Basically, there was no ‘plan’. That is, we didn’t say ‘Okay, we’re going to this city to see this, and that city to see that.’ We just hit a city and followed our noses. It was fun, not having an itinerary. We discovered small cafés, stumbled onto a jazz-fusion concert, etc.

The route was this: London, 8 hours in Oostend, Milan (Milano), Florence (Firenze), Venice (Venezia), Vienna (Wien) for a few hours, Munich (München), Copenhagen (Kobenhavn), Stockholm, Uppsala, and back to London. Time: Five weeks.

We stayed in youth hostels, and saved money on beds by travelling by night on the trains. The trains were often very crowded. Once I joined a lot of other travellers who were using the same strategy, in sleeping in the corridor. The only available spot was by the door, so I was awakened frequently. We tried to save money by camping out in Englischer Garten (Munich), only to be rained on. Seeking shelter at the nearest building, which turned out to be the American Embassy, we were chased off by die Polizei. You know that old '60s song by Petula Clark, Don’t Sleep In The Subway? Yup. We did. When the train station opened, we kipped in there for a short bit, until the guards started going round kicking people awake. I ended up with a cold, and we had to spend another day in Munich anyway. ($12/each for the room at the University hostel.)

Pick up a travel guide. We used Let’s Go: Europe. Generally a good guide, it did have a few inaccuracies with regard to pricing and directions. On the bus trip home from Chicago to L.A., I read then-fairly-new The Hitchhiker’s Guide To The Galaxy. The book was all the more funny for having ‘lived out of’ Let’s Go for the previous five weeks.

Anecdotes:
[ul][li]In Florence an older American woman called to her husband: ‘Hey Murray! Go stand by that statue. I want to take a picture of it!’ [/li][li]In Milan, after having stayed in hostels and travelled by night on trains, my friend overheard an American family at an American Express office complaining that there was a towel on the floor! :eek: of their hotel room. Sheesh! :rolleyes: [/li][li]In Vienna, an American man was trying to get First Class passage for himself and his dog on the train. The clerk explained to him that animals were not allowed in First Class, but that they could travel Second Class. ‘I’m an American!’ the man prolaimed, ‘And I always travel First Class! My dog is a show-winner, and he always travels with me!’ :rolleyes: When we got to the cage we told the clerk, ‘We’re not all like that.’ [/li][li]In London we met a girl from New Jersey. A short, drunken Irishman was trying to talk with her. My friend and I were standing by in case he made a move; but as long as he was just talking, we would not get physical with him. I mean, we were raised to believe that roughing people up – even when they’re a little obnoxious – just isn’t done. At the next stop a huge Englishman got up to get off of the train and gave the Irishman a faceful of hand, pushing him roughly against the wall. The Irishman got off at the next stop, and the other people on the train explained that it was okay; the guy was known to support the IRA. (A week or so before we arrived in London the first time, some of the Queen’s horses were blown up by an IRA bomb.)[/li][li]On the return-trip through Oostend, an elderly Belgian man brought his eight-year-old granddaughter over to us and told her that we were Americans and that the Americans freed their country in WWII. We were embarassed. I mean, neither of us had served in the military and we were both looking a bit ragged after five weeks ‘on the road’. I wished I could have been more presentable to this very nice old man and his granddaughter.[/li][li]In Stockholm we saw a guy who vaguely resembled Alexander Haig. ‘A Vague Al Haig’.[/ul][/li]
My friend spoke a little Italian (one semester at a community college) and I spoke some German ( through German III in high school). We found that most people spoke English and that while they appreciated our efforts at speaking their languages, they were quite happy to converse with us in ours. When asked if we were Americans, we told people we’re Californians. 'We’re different. :wink: ’ We found it refreshing to be amongst people who had a larger world-view than we were used to in our desert city in northern L.A. County. Our town was rather conservative, and it was nice to be around people who shared our views of Reagan & Co.

I had a security clearance at the time, so it would have caused problems for me later if we had gone to Yugoslavia or East Berlin. I should have gone anyway. After all, I was prepared to quit my job in order to have the time off for the trip. What was I thinking? :smack:

18

Just a note on the rail passes:

they go by zones, so it would probably be a good idea to check which areas is “your” pass good for before you go. Otherwise you may end up buying 3 different passes and since you plan on staying in specific towns, not on roaming, it may actually be cheaper to buy regular tickets using a Youth Card.

19

You may save money, and certainly time, by flying between the cities you’ve listed. http://www.whichbudget.com gives details of all the low-cost airlines, and just about any routing between your destinations is workable. Only Amsterdam-Paris and Vienna-Prague are ones where I would certainly choose to travel by train - but different strokes, I guess, and if travelling by train is a novelty, maybe there’s an added attraction.

20

I was going to hijack the thread with this question, but I started a new one instead.

As for advice, I can’t give much. My trip recently cost way more than I anticipated. The biggest thing is the exchange rate.

It European Union countries (while supplies last!), it isn’t so bad. The dollar to Euro was about 1:1.2.

The pound was nearly 1:2.

I recommend using credit cards when possible. They will give you the best rates. If you need cash, use an ATM. Most places take standard US ATM cards.

And let me be the contrary voice. Don’t be afraid to see the touristy sights. They are famous for a reason. If you are interested in Art and History, this may be you only opportunity to see the works and places that stood out through the ages and became the “one to see.”

In London, you have to go to the Tower of London. It was the most FASCINATING thing there.

Also, check out the British Museum. It is free. There was a tour my wife and I took there that gave as much of an overview as possible (we only had half a day to spend there). It cost 15 pounds, but was well worth it (if you are going on a tight budget, you probably need to avoid that).

In Paris, I can’t recommend a better experience than walking from the Bastille up the Champs Elysees to the Arc de Triomphe. Even in rush hour traffic, I found the experience totally relaxing (until I realized I was running late to meet my tour group to head back to England and had to ATM out some Euros and catch a cab…)