I'm finally going to EUROPE! Help me plan...

In My Humble Opinion
21

Travel is so subjective, something might be the high point of one person’s visit, while another person will be totaly indifferent to it. Bearing that in mind . . .

Get yourself a small European phrasebook. Mine has just about everything you’d want to say in six languages. Learn a few basic phrases just to let people know you’re trying. Usually they’ll continue the conversation in English. The exception is Dutch: it’s an impossible language to figure out on your own, and they’d rather you speak English anyway.

Don’t spend the whole trip taking pictures of each other in front of famous sites. It’s amazing how many people do this, as if they have to prove they were actually there. Instead, take pictures of things that you want to remember: people you meet, funny things you encounter, interesting scenes, street performers, etc.

Water: You’ll get very thirsty walking around, and there are damn few water fountains in Europe. Carry bottles of water, and refill them each morning from whereever you’re staying.

London: My favorite thing in London was the half-day trip to see Stonehenge, though others have been disappointed. Also, the British Museum has some neat things in it. The food in London is much more varied than it used to be; and of course, the many, many pubs.

Paris: I can’t go to Paris without visiting the d’Orsay Museum, which has art from the impressionist and art nouveau periods. Especially the top floor (a room of van Goghs, a room of Monets, etc.). And the building itself used to be a train station, and is gorgeous. Paris has the best food anywhere, but can be pricey. Eat lots of baguettes.

Rome: I spent almost an entire day exploring the Coloseum, but that’s just me. And you’ll have to learn a whole new way of crossing streets in Rome; the traffic moves fast, and never seems to stop.

Florence: If you see the statue of David outside, that’s not the real one. The real one is inside and very worth seeing, especially since it’s recently been cleaned.

Venice: try to get to Venice, even for a day or two. It’s a magical city and so much fun just walking around and getting lost.

Vienna: What I remember most from Vienna was seeing the original paintings of Gustav Klimt; no reproductions can do justice to them. Also, the architecture from the Jungstil movement. And if you’re at all interested in classical music, a whole bunch of major composers lived (and are buried) there. And Vienna has the best food outside of Paris.

22

I agree. I took a full day trip to Windsor, SH and Bath. I thought I would hate Bath (the wife insisted), but it was incredible. Not only was it a neat city, but the countryside we saw as we travled from Stonehenge to Bath was breathtaking. The Rapeseed fields were in full bloom and so yellow you had to look away.

My wife and I went on a day tour of Paris from England and my wife chose d’Orsay over the Louvre as the activity in our afternoon free time (as I had already visited Paris for a week a decade earlier with my best friend and his family, I gave her free reign). While I was impressed with her actually having artistic tastes, I was somewhat bored. Art Appreciation is lost on me. But it did give me my biggest laugh of the trip. As we were waiting in line, I looked across the courtyard out front,and saw the exact bar that me and my best friend went to after sneaking out of the d’Orsay after about an hour of viewing waterlillies. Ah, the timelessness of Europe!

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[itching eyes]

Bloody rapeseed

[/itching eyes]

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So you are saying that they are better experienced from a movie bus?

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MOVING bus!

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There is a Rough Guide book called “First Time Europe” that has lots of good advice.

Some of which is:
The earlier in the summer you plan your trip, the more enjoyable it will be, with happiness taking a radical downturn Aug 1.
Have a reservation for whever you are going to spend your very first night abroad (in a B&B or larger hostel that takes reservations)

My own personal view is that you are trying to fit far, far too many places in a 20 day trip. I’m counting 7, maybe 8 destinations? If you travel every other day you’re probably going to get mentally exhausted with 'If its Tuesday this must be Belgium" syndrome.

Sleeping on the train is a downer. I would not count on doing that every night… you’ll be very tired and grubby each morning. Most everyplace they have “Pensions” or small mini-hotels which are often a step above hostels in amenities but not price. I stayed at a really nice one in Florence (so clean you could eat off the floor) with my own private bathroom – same cost as the local dorm-style hostel. At a similar establishment in Hungary, we were served breakfast outdoors under the cherry trees – and the owners offered to drive us to the train station!

Vienna is very expensive, If you are on a tight budget it would be first destination I would eliminate.

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I just got back from a trip to London and Paris. Personally, I enjoyed London a lot more, in part because there were many more things that I was interested in seeing and doing there. Don’t underestimate the degree to which you’ll miss hearing your own language, as well. I’ve always been interested in languages (having studied German, Italian, Spanish and French at various times during my school career) but sometimes it’s just nice hearing English. You may be surprised at how many Americans/Canadians there are, especially in Paris - and not just in touristy areas, either.

London: Though the exchange rate is ludicrous, the prices there aren’t too bad. If you’re looking for a relatively cheap place to eat there, try Pret a Manger. They’re about as common as Starbuckses in the more upscale areas of town and have some of the most delicious sandwiches I have ever tasted, ranging in cost from £1.05 to £2.90. Their crisps and drinks are terrific too. Also, don’t miss a chance to eat Indian food, especially if you’ve never tried it before. You’re better off avoiding the expensive places anyway - go for the tiny tucked-away place with only a few tables. In general, the cheesier the decor, the cheaper and more delicious the food is. Avoid eating in pubs - they’re crowded and smoky. As far as actual places to visit, I really wish I’d had gone to the Tower of London - I was traveling with my mom, though, and she’d already been. I don’t know how big a music fan you are, but one of my favorite things that I did in London was go to one of the Rough Trade shops in Notting Hill.

Paris: The Louvre is not overrated. Best of all, if you’re under 26 you can get in for free on Friday nights. I also recommend taking an evening cruise up the Seine. But take heed of the wise words other people say: there are no water fountains here (the only one I saw was at the Musee d’Orsay, and it was for filling bottles), and constantly buying water bottles gets expensive, expecially since the bottles are so small. Finally, there’s a three-day Metro pass I’d recommend buying. I can’t remember the exact name of it, but it allows unlimited access to the Metro and the bus system. Although walking is great to give you a feel for the city, it’s probably best to use public transportation if you want to get a lot of things done. (I also wanted to recommend an absolutely phenomenal ice cream place in Paris but I cannot remember the name of it. I’ll get back to you.)

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If you stay in a hotel or bed & breakfast, eat the breakfast and more, and skip lunch. For cheap good food in France, go to the restaurant in the local hypermarket.

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Excellent advice.

True of some pubs, at some times during the day/week. But others, again often the out-of-the-way ones, serve excellent food at good value.

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Oh, and regarding more general touristy advice (especially for London), try searching for previous threads - there’s a lot of them!

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If you plan on traveling to as many places as you say, and you’ve only got 20 days, I’d advise against a train pass. The travel time will eat into your twenty days mighty quickly.

I’d recommend looking into Ryan Air. Very very very cheap flights, and it’ll save a ton of time.

Also, I plan on being in London at the beginning of August and have tried to get a small dopefest going one night. Any interest?

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Useful German rail site with Europe-wide timetabling. Very useful to check on likely journey times. (Remember to enter localised spellings of cities - ‘Roma’, ‘Wien’ etc)

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I did the Europe by train thing two or three years ago in a very similar fashion to what you seem to be planning. Some good advice in this thread already, and some that I disagree with…

Stick to the train - flying isn’t nearly as much fun, and the RyanAir airports are always way outside the cities you are actually going to. And you get much less flexibility if you book all your flights in advance - with trains you can just figure out when you want to leave and go jump on the train. Besides, like others have said night trains mean saving the cost of a hostel for a night. My girlfriend and I did that a few times and it was fine. In some countries it was really comfortable to sleep on the train actually - as in you sat in a compartment with 6 chairs or so which all folded down to create a big bed. And besides, sleeping in a chair for one night here and there isn’t that bad. I would probably fly from London to wherever you are going on the mainland though - The Eurail pass doesn’t cover the chunnel and it was expensive, so flying would be much cheaper there. When we started our journey we flew from London to Paris and then started the train trip.

At hostels or super cheap hotels we always got a separate room rather than the dorm style beds. For two people it was always pretty much the same price as getting two beds in the dorm rooms. (And since I was with my girlfriend a separate room was always nice…)

I wouldn’t worry too much about learning the languages in different countries. When you’re there if you just listen to people you can pick up a few good phrases. Must be careful though, sometimes I would order things in whatever language was appropriate only to get asked something or other in reply and then you have to stand there looking stupid because you have no idea what they just said. I did this a few times. Still, it is fun trying to pretend that you speak their language.

Some things I like about some of the cities you are thinking about visiting…

Amsterdam: One of favorite summertime cities. Hang out in the parks. Visit the museums (I liked the Van Gogh museum, skipped the Anne Frank house because the line was too long and I didn’t want to go anyway - my gf went though and I guess she enjoyed it). Imbibe in the local culture. Eat fries with mayonaise.

Prague: Drink beer. Stroll around the old town. The Kafka museum is really small and only interesting if you really like Kafka I think. Very cool city in general. And good beer.

London has been covered by those who actually live there… I really like the Tate Modern in London. Go to the pubs - drink beer, eat pub food.

Paris: Hang out at cafes. Montmartre is a cool area. Others here have already given good advice on Paris…

OK, sorry my advice on the cities is terrible. We just wandered around randomly everywhere we went and ended up seeing all kinds of cool stuff… we did the major touristy things as well. Just play it by ear when you get to each city. I think that is the most important thing - be flexible. We had no plan beyond a rough idea of how we wanted to travel. When we got to a city we would get off the train and head to where we thought downtown seemed to be and find a place to stay and then just head out and see what was going on.

I will also third the suggestion for Venice. Skip Florence, go to Venice. I know a lot of people here have said good things about Florence, I just thought it was lots of Americans and some museums with long lines. Venice is a crazy city to wander around - I got lost in the alleys there for a long time and couldn’t find my way out. My gf was not happy - I thought it was great fun. Good ice cream as well.

I’m sure you’ll love your trip. Don’t plan too much, and just have fun.

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If you happen to make London your first stop then you can go to Stanfords, near Covent Garden, and pick up maps for the rest of your trip (and just about everywhere else too).

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Travel really is subjective. JMHO, I really don’t think Venice is worth it. So expensive, and almost like a theme park of itself. (I never once saw a grocery store there, just hotel after hotel after insanely priced restaurant catering to the naugahyde palate crowd) Plus, it reeks of sewage when its hot and the water’s low. If you’re on a train that stops there for a layover or switch (many trains from Italy to Eastern Europe stop there) get off the train and walk out of the train station. What you can see from there (the grand canal, one of the famous bridges, gondoliers raping tourists for their euros) pretty much sums up everything you’re going to see in Venice anyways. Did I mention it’s expensive? 5 Euro (almost $10) for a waterbus ride – in a city you can walk across in an hour.

Florence on the other hand… one of my favorite cities I’ve ever been to.

shrug

For “stupid tourist stuff” I frickin’ loved the Leaning Tower of Pisa. It’s an easy day trip from Florence, no need to stay overnight.

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Yes, we really liked the d’Orsay because of our interests in the Impressionists in particular – although there is more.

The night cruise on the Seine is magnificent, but having dinner is an unnecessary expense. Take a cruise without the dinner.

The Eifle Tower goes into a “spasm” for about ten minutes every hour at night. Find out what time that happens and don’t miss it! (That will end in 2013.)

Take the steps that lead from the bridges down close to the River Seine and walk down by the water. That is the most romantic place in the world – day or night.

Between the Seine and the Luxembourg Garden area was pretty much the route of the Lost Generation of writers and artists of the 1920s and 1930s and the Existentialists of a few years later.

My favorite daytime outdoor restaurant is near the Luxembourg Gardens. (I’m terrible at spelling.) It’s called the Closerie de Lilas, I think. It was here that Hemingway wrote The Sun Also Rises and he mentions the restaurant in the book. Henry Miller used to hang out there, as did Trotsky and Lenin. It is beautiful and the food is very good without totally wrecking your budget. The French Senate is nearby and interesting looking men are having assignations.

Alas, Paris virtually closes down in August, so I am told.

About forty or fifty miles or so outside of Paris in the village where Monet lived and painted. His gardens with those wonderful water lilies, Japanese bridges, and weeping willows are still there! The gardens are fantastic! You can take a train there and then take a bus on a short trip to the village. It was one of the best things we did. Someone think of the name of the village; it slips my mind…

My favorite thing in Vienna was Schoenbrunn Palace – both the interior and the gardens behind. I took a tour bus there, but left it behind and just wandered away on my own and had quite an adventure.

You will love Amsterdam. So clean and friendly! Take the canel boat tour that starts at the train station. (I assume they still have it!) Be sure to visit Anne Frank’s Secret Annex. I think that it left more of an impression on me than anything else that I saw in any of the cities. It is hard to believe that you are really there. And the art museums!!!

If you decide to substitute something for Paris because you will be in Europe in August, I had a world of fun in the Scandanavian countries! Very friendly to Americans and such fun times!

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Sometimes, but not always. Regarding the OP, it’s true for Paris, but they fly to both Rome airports. Paris, Amsterdam and Prague are mainly served by Easyjet. Also investigate this deal, which offers more flexibility although might cost too much.

The cheapest Eurostar fares are £59 - by the time you’ve gotten to airports at both ends, you’ll be hard-pushed to do cheaper. (BTW, you’ll get strange looks calling it the ‘chunnel’.)

You’ve each made the same mistake, in different cities. Both cities have their horrendous overpriced Disneyfied area…and both are easy to escape from. Florence is almost as good as Venice for disappearing into quiet side streets and stumbling across things. Get away from San Marco, and Venice can be quiet and peaceful even in summer…and yes, you can find grocery stores, and bakeries, and hardware shops, and everything else you’d expect in a city where people do actually live.

€10.50 for a day ticket is far better value - and will also get you to the other islands (Murano for the glass factories, don’t go on an organised tour which are a rip-off), Burano for lace, the Lido for the beach and the casino

38

Monet’s house is in Giverny Link .I have been there twice. One thing you won’t find there are any original Monet paintings. Although there are thousands of reproductions in the gift shop. The house does contain many of Monet’s Japanese prints and pictures, which he collected, and some say were one inspiration for his own paintings.

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The best thing you can do is plan ahead. Seriously, the more you know before you go, the better off you’ll be.
You’re hoping to hit quite a few cities. Does that mean you’re going to fly into one city and then do a loop, leaving from the same city? Or will you fly into London and leave from Florence? That can radically change what you see, how many days you get to spend in each city, and how many days you’ll spend travelling. Doing an open-jaw makes a lot of sense, but you’ll probably need help from a travel agent to arrange it.

If you buy a Eurail pass, count on spending one day every time you want to go from one city to the next-- sometimes two days if it’s a long trip. And if you can arrange to get on a high-speed train (sometimes requiring reservations before you leave) it can really shave off time. Don’t hope to sleep on trains either, because unless you fork out the cash for a sleeper car it really sucks. (And in a sleeper berth it just sucks)

Know when museums and other tourist attractions are open and closed. If you’ve got one day in a city and all the museums are locked you’re going to be pissed. Plan your travel days accordingly.

If you want ideas about what to see, check out Rick Steves’ show on PBS. Yes it’s hokey, but the guy does know how to travel.

watsonwil’s other thread has good advice about how to pack your stuff.

And one last thing: Marseille is a dirty hole. But it is close to Cassis (great local wine) and the calanques. Go hike 'em!

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Do Rome and Paris really “shut down” in the month of August? Because that’s when I’ll be there - not much I can do about it. Do you mean that there’s less shopping and access to touristy places? As long as I can still wander the streets and see some things, and have a place to sleep, and food to eat, I think I’ll be okay. But what do you mean by “shut down”?