Help a lurker/European Trip

In My Humble Opinion
1

Hey everyone,

This is my first post, but I’m a long time lurker…I honestly, for some reason, find it a lot of fun (and quite relaxing) reading all of your thoughts every night.

I need help planning my girlfriend and I’s “great college European trip.” I’m sure you all know the one- the first real European experience, without parents and siblings. We’re both 21, and have been dating for three years.

Price isn’t really an issue, as we’ve both been saving a long time, and working hard, specifically for this trip.

We figured that 10-12 days would be a good amount of time, and it would probably be in late June, because of school requirements (though I know I could spend a good month everywhere, and still not see everything).

I spoke to a travel agent friend of mine, and here are the two itinerary choices she suggested:

  1. London, Paris, South France
  2. Paris, Rome, Florence/Portofino/Cinque Terra
  3. Hi Opal! (Can I do this? I know I haven’t “earned my stripes”, and I might not even be using it right…)

We’ve both been to London before, but not anything notable- I went there for 3 days a few months ago to see the Cream reunion, and she was there in 8th grade with the family.

I know this is a hard question, but what do you all recommend? Should we be looking at other places (I’m really not interested in Russia/Germany/etc… at this point, though)? Does anyone have any fabulous/terrible stories about where I’ve mentioned?

Honestly, we have no clue where to start, and ANY and ALL feedback is appreciated.

Thanks!
-Matt

2

Alright, the Hi Opal! thing was a shameless way to impress you all- looking back, it was dumb. Sorry everyone!

-Matt

3

It’s what you’re personally into.

I, personally, thought that Rome was drop dead stunning and I literally had to remind myself to close my mouth as I was gawking at things so much, South of France has beautiful countryside but you might need a car to appreciate it and London is not IMO nearly as beautiful as Rome but there’s lots to do and because you speak the language you have a few more cultural options.

The other places I’ve never been to.

I think it might be a good idea to think about how you and your GF are with climate. London could be quite pleasant but there’s always a chance of rain, Paris is likely to be nice and Rome is probably going to be really quite hot already.

Finally, you are very sensible with your iternaries and it seems either of those could be done even though to a European it still sounds a bit rushed. Don’t be tempted to do any more than you already have there or you are just going to be rushing around and waking up wondering which country you’re in.

Hope this top-off-my-head waffle helps. I’m quite jealous of the trip and hope you enjoy yourself.

4

Pookah is right; it’s what you’re personally into.

If you want to see The Highlights, I recommend buying a English guide for Europe as a continent. An example that I liked is "Let’s Go Europe. It selects the sights most appreciated by Americans, which might be different from the sights appreciated by us natives.

If I were you, and I wanted to “do” Europe in twelve days, I wouldn’t bother about nature sightseeing. The USA has much, much more, and much grander nature, and more spectacular wildlife then the pitiful leftovers we have here, in our densely populated countries.
The area around Genua and Cinque Terra is beautiful, I’ve been there, but the same applies there. If you aren’t keen on seeing very specific landscapes, plants or wildlife, chances are you will just waste days looking at a slow nature documentary through your car windows.
Spend more days strolling cities instead.

I’d say do two days London, two days Paris (spend one in the Louvre Museum!), one day travel, three days Rome, one day Venice (Florence isn’t that different from Rome) and with som days for travel and rest, your trip will be full to the brink.

5

There’s lots of interesting stuff to see, I wouldn’t really know where to begin. So what you should start with, is talking a little bit about things that you like and interest you, like architecture, art, nature, and so on.

I don’t think you could go much wrong with itenerary option 2 though. Rome is the favorite city of many. Stockholm and Amsterdam are also beautiful cities in that time of year (two cities I happen to know well). I also love Edinburgh and Dublin, if you want to stick to the UK region (you could do London, Edinburg, Dublin and probably not regret it).

Andalusia in Spain is also pretty amazing, Sevilla, Cordoba, Bariz, ets. - guaranteed warm (near hot) and sunny weather, and you could even consider crossing over to Morocco for a day.

So many options, I’m 31 and haven’t left Europe yet, and my list of places still to see and visit is long enough to last me a lifetime.

You also say that money is no objection, but consider for a moment the option that you could do this twice if you spend your money wisely. :wink:

6

All of those places sound fantastic, but I’d go for something a bit more geographically compact (cutting out Paris for Option #2, and going to northern France and / or someplace in Britain that isn’t London instead of southern France for Option #1). It’ll save you money and time, and trust me, there’s plenty of good stuff everywhere. And take as much time as you possibly can, because ten days truly is nothing – is there way you could stretch it out to a full two weeks with a weekend on either side?

I second the rec for Let’s Go and / or Lonely Planet, but for a trip of that length, you’ll probably be better off with individual country guides rather than the full Europe book – they’re much more detailed and less bulky.

7

More time! You need more time! It’s not worth spending all that money on a plane ticket only to turn around barely more than a week later and go home. You are young, and you arn’t going to get chances to spend a month or three abroad ever again. I swear to god you won’t regret it at all if you give up your apartment or whatever and spend all summer there. Cut down on your expenses, get some one-night jobs off the ‘gigs’ section of Craig’s List, stay in hostels and eat lots of picnics, and try to be there at least a month.

Do the Italy trip- you can stay longer. London is too expensive for young travellers- go there when you are old and can afford it. Even if money is not an issue, it’s simply not worth it at this point when there are so many places where you can have twice the good time for the same money. Italy is lightyears more affordable and personally I think it’s a lot more interesting for a young person.

As far as guide books, I can’t reccommend Rick Steves enough. His “Europe through the backdoor” book is an excellent guide to how to travel. He covers packing, language, security…everything. He focuses on an older crowd, but he really has an “edge” to him. I really really highly super-highly suggest you at least flip through it at the bookstore. His country guidebooks are opinionated, shockingly useful, and have really good restraunt/hotel reccommendations that come in handy when your sick of staying in places where you bring-your-own-sheets but still don’t want to spend a fortune. I’d supplament this with a budget travel guide- I find Let’s Go is somewhat unreliable and would pick out a Lonely Planet or Rough Guide. Cut out the pages that relate to the places you have no intention of ever visiting to keep weight down.

One word of caution. Travelling with an SO has HUGE disaster potential. Travelling is stressful as is, and when you both know you are spending huge amounts of money just to be there, you tend to get a little extra testy when disagreements pop up. Make sure you have a plan for getting some alone time, what to do when you both want to go to different places (you should probably figure out a way you’d be comfortable splitting up for a day here and there), what to do if you become seperated, and how you are going to deal when your budgets don’t sync up perfectly.

8

Seconded. Americans don’t realize the density of Europe, and the smallness of the distances. Every square mile is packed with sights, piled up by the centuries.

Seconded too; London is very, very expensive. Hotels and B&B’s are the biggest cost, and you can cut down by staying with friends, but even then…On the bright side, in Prague, the fifth most beautiful and traveller-friendly town in Europe, everything is half the cost of the average European city.

Very good advice. Pay heed.

9

If you are going for the “college euro trip”, then you can’t leave out Prague and/or Amsterdam.

10

So many responses- wow!:slight_smile:

Let’s see here:

Thanks for the tip- I’ll buy it from Amazon, can’t wait till it arrives.

Are Portofino and Cinque Terra really not that interesting? You’re right, that while I appreciate nice nature, I’d rather not spend a few days seeing it. I was under the impression (my own impression, that I formed without knowledge or evidence) that those two areas were more like resort-y coastal areas, probably very touristy, but still bustling.
I’d love to go to as many places as I can, but do you feel that too much traveling between lots of places on the trip might cause fatigue? That’s why I didn’t want to do London, Paris, and Italy.

Would it be better to choose either Rome or Florence, and then add Venice? We don’t mind walking around a lot (being in New York), and I was told (and my research suggests) that if you’re a walker, Florence can be extremely rewarding.

Thank you very much for the tip, we’ll definitely talk about it before we leave.

And we would both LOVE to go for a month/a semester, but it really isn’t feasible. We were going to study abroad through school (a good 4 months), but my SO’s administration would allow her to go (she’s a transfer, so her credit situation is a little weird).

We’ve heard great things about Prague, but isn’t it a little too far East for the scope of this trip? Perhaps we’d be better off including that with Germany/Austria in the future?

I DEFINITELY want to spend as much time there as we can. At this point, we’re thinking 11 days is the minimum, and if we can stretch it to 14, we might. Unfortunately, this trip can’t be much more than that-- I do know, however, how much we will be missing.

I guess the smart thing, then, considering money and time, is to go to Paris, and then focus on Italy, and know that we haven’t really begun to really explore. How does that sound?

Although I feel more enlightened now, I’m definitely more confused, because I have so many more options.

11

Travelling itself can be surprisingly tiring. Don’t forget you’ll also be tackling jetlag from day one. Also, as others have said/hinted, you get far more rewarding experiences from spending more time in fewer places.

All have their fans, all have their fanatics. My personal opinion:

  • Rome: great for a quick tour of the sights. Also fantastic for seeing a historical city that’s also a truly vibrant place. It’s the only Italian city I’ve seen a complete synthesis of the ancient and the contemporary - everywhere else has seemed to comprise of two separate worlds.

  • Florence: the best option for a day trip. Also the best option for those already wedded to the history of Italy. A small centre that you can get around by foot easily.

  • Venice: if you do it quickly, you’ll feel let down. You need time to get throughly lost, ‘discover’ the majority of the island which isn’t overrun by tourist, take trips to the Lido, the glass-blowing factories (don’t go with the organised tours, they’re a rip-off), and the cemetery island. The last sounds macabre, but it’s unique as the only island in the lagoon which hasn’t got large buildings, so you get the feeling you really are in the middle of the sea. It’s the resting place of Stravinsky and Diaghilev, if you’re after celebrity corpses!
    Thank you very much for the tip, we’ll definitely talk about it before we leave.

And we would both LOVE to go for a month/a semester, but it really isn’t feasible. We were going to study abroad through school (a good 4 months), but my SO’s administration would allow her to go (she’s a transfer, so her credit situation is a little weird).

We’ve heard great things about Prague, but isn’t it a little too far East for the scope of this trip? Perhaps we’d be better off including that with Germany/Austria in the future?

I DEFINITELY want to spend as much time there as we can. At this point, we’re thinking 11 days is the minimum, and if we can stretch it to 14, we might. Unfortunately, this trip can’t be much more than that-- I do know, however, how much we will be missing.

I guess the smart thing, then, considering money and time, is to go to Paris, and then focus on Italy, and know that we haven’t really begun to really explore. How does that sound?

Although I feel more enlightened now, I’m definitely more confused, because I have so many more options.
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12

Travelling itself can be surprisingly tiring. Don’t forget you’ll also be tackling jetlag from day one. Also, as others have said/hinted, you get far more rewarding experiences from spending more time in fewer places.

All have their fans, all have their fanatics. My personal opinion:

  • Rome: great for a quick tour of the sights. Also fantastic for seeing a historical city that’s also a truly vibrant place. It’s the only Italian city I’ve seen a complete synthesis of the ancient and the contemporary - everywhere else has seemed to comprise of two separate worlds.

  • Florence: the best option for a day trip. Also the best option for those already wedded to the history of Italy. A small centre that you can get around by foot easily.

  • Venice: if you do it quickly, you’ll feel let down. You need time to get throughly lost, ‘discover’ the majority of the island which isn’t overrun by tourist, take trips to the Lido, the glass-blowing factories (don’t go with the organised tours, they’re a rip-off), and the cemetery island. The last sounds macabre, but it’s unique as the only island in the lagoon which hasn’t got large buildings, so you get the feeling you really are in the middle of the sea. It’s the resting place of Stravinsky and Diaghilev, if you’re after celebrity corpses!

Prague ain’t eastern - it’s west of Vienna.

Seriously - Prague is a common weekend trip for Brits. There’s oodles of cheap flights from all over the UK. And getting there by train from adjacent countries isn’t a problem. This site, from the German railways, is particularly useful for looking up times for cross-Europe trains.

13

(Apologies, the first post was premature!)

14

Cinque Terre is very touristy, but gorgeous, and I think it’s definitely worth getting out of the big cities for a day or two. And yes, you’re totally doing the right thing by not wanting to travel between too many places. There will be other trips, after all.

Having been to all three, my feeling is that Florence is interesting, but Rome and Venice are utterly mind-blowing, so I’d go with Rome if that’s the way you’re thinking.

15

Try to stay up till at least 9pm, with no naps, on your first day there. Find something that won’t be too mentally challenging to do that first day. You will be absolutely exhausted, but then you’ll be able to crash at 9pm and be mostly adjusted to the time change after that.

Are you willing to drive in Europe? Don’t be afraid to admit it if you don’t think you could handle it. I won’t drive anywhere where they drive on the left, the road signs are not in English, automatic-transmission cars are not readily available, or where four-wheel drive is necessary. That rules out most of Europe for driving for me. If you will be driving, agree beforehand on how you’ll split it up, if you will.

And, if you will be driving, do keep in mind that, IIRC, their drunk-driving laws tend to be stricter than those in the US. Rick Steves recommends not drinking until you’re sure that you’re done with driving for the day, which I think is excellent advice. If you go to Amsterdam and partake of other substances there, I would do the same thing with those and driving as with drinking and driving.

Make sure you are on the same page as far as accommodations go. How does each of you feel about youth hostels with dorm-style bedrooms? Curfews? Hotels with shared bathrooms? You can generally get hotels up to anyone’s standards, but it might cost more. Some of us would say that’s worth it- I will never again willingly stay in a hotel without a private bathroom in my room. It’s not a bad idea to book the hotels before you go, either, although you do lose flexibility by doing that.

If you are taking trains for long-distance trips, book your seat ahead of time. Mr. Neville and I didn’t do that between Padua and Rome, and it was absolutely horrible. We were sitting on little folding seats along the aisles for hours.

I think Let’s Go is more comprehensive than Rick Steves’ guidebooks- I find Rick Steves focuses quite a bit on the places he is interested in, which are not always what I’m interested in. I haven’t found many places I was interested in going that didn’t get at least a cursory coverage in Let’s Go.

If you’re going to be touring historic churches (Notre Dame in Paris, St. Peter’s in Rome, Basilica San Marco in Venice, et cetera), be sure to bring at least one or two outfits that will fully cover you from shoulders (I would make sure it has at least T-shirt sleeves) to knees. They won’t let you into those churches (and probably others as well) if the guards think you are too skimpily dressed. Also take a fleece or lightweight jacket- it can get cold at night. Only take comfortable shoes.

Learn some of the language of wherever you’ll be going, if you haven’t already. You don’t need a semester course in it, but you should get a phrasebook. The restaurants with menus in English tend to be the more touristy (read: less good but more expensive) ones, at least in Venice and Florence. Be sure to try some of the local food specialties wherever you go. Guidebooks will have information on what those are.

16

I’d like to really, really, really, thank everybody for their help so far. We both really appreciate it!

Driving is not going to happen- I haven’t had practice in anything other than American-style automatics, so I’m not going to take my chances. All very good advice though, and good point about the restaurants.

For Hotels, private bathrooms are a must- we don’t mind spending a bit more on hotels- that’s why we’ve been saving up, anyway, to avoid the backpacking/hostel thing. Although I’m sure it’s fun to be very spontaneous, I can’t do that- it’s too in my nature to plan everything like this beforehand.

I think we’ve decided to definitely do Florence, and most likely Rome. I guess the choice now is either Venice, or Cinque Terra/Portofino, though I suspect most everybody will say Venice. Does 2-3 days in Vienna sound ideal, especially if we want to see some non-touristy stuff? Do people usually stay in Hotels in Vienna, or deeper in the mainland?

Of course, the trip will still start with Paris, and we’ve ruled out London.
Here’s my other concern- I don’t want to be considered rude in these countries, and of course we’ll learn some of the basic phrases, but how well do most people know English? I’ve heard that many people study it in school, but I’m a little concerned- I’d like to be able to go to at least a nice dinner or two and not feel completely lost.

I also think we’ll be relying on Public Transportation, as opposed to cabs, especially in Paris. Do Italian cities have subways/busses also?

One more favor to ask you all- are there any “hidden gem” restaurants you’ve dined at, that were special/amazing for the food, experience, or both in any of these places? I don’t want to go to the big tourist restaurants, but instead want to get a real taste of the cuisine, and don’t know if tourism books can help me.

Again, everyone, we’re really grateful for you all sharing your experience and knowledge with us - we’d be lost otherwise!

-Matt

17

There’s a great website for finding nice hotels called www.eurocheapo.com - the name is a bit cheesy, but there are some great places in there in Rome, Florence and London.

We stayed at the Hotel Scoti in Florence - fantastic location near the river and walking distance to everywhere.

A great place to eat in Florence is Trattoria Palle d’Oro (Via Sant’ Antonino)… wonderful fresh pasta dishes in the heart of the city, bargain prices and a real “local” feel to it (ie. not just for tourists)

18

Not everyone will speak English, but many waiters etc. will be able to help. Making an effort with a phrase book is an excellent idea, it will make it clear you’re not just another arrogant monolingual tourist!

Yes. Italian public transport is very good. Rome has two subway lines and lots of buses - although I’d recommend leaving extra time and walking from one place to another, because there’s so much to see en route. Florence is so small you won’t need transport to get around. In Venice, the vaporettos (water buses) are what you’ll use - there’s one route (number 1) which goes along the Grand Canal stopping everywhere, with other routes serving elsewhere. A good map of the city, which is essential in any case, will show all the routes. And for getting between cities, Italian trains are both reliable and cheap, but follow the advice given earlier to book ahead.

19

Seconded. Also, Rome and Florence are both cities on dry land with a river through it, while Venice is built in a lagune and has all those canals. Rome has just more history then Florence, too, and it’s a LOT larger. So if you have to choose two out of those three, Rome and Venice offer the most variety in experience.

20

It’s often called “ensuite bathroom” or something like that.

I’ll say Venice. I loved Venice.

Rome does, and Venice has vaporetti (water buses). In Florence, all the stuff of interest is in the medieval center of town, and will be within walking distance if you stay in a hotel there, which you should.

Never been to the Cinque Terre, so I don’t know if they have public transit.

We really just wandered around and looked at posted restaurant menus (most restaurants in Venice, Rome, and Florence had their menu posted outside).

This will sound strange, but a cookbook specializing in regional cuisines of Italy might help you figure out what some specialties that you’d like to try might be.

My advice, especially in Venice, is to avoid the restaurants that have menus in French, German, Italian, and English. We saw quite a few restaurants with quadrilingual menus, and they were mostly tourist traps.

Don’t stay at Pensione Ferretti in Florence. We stayed there, and had a terrible experience. We had to share a bathroom with people who didn’t know that a shared bathroom is NOT the time or place for an hour-long shower (this experience is why I will never again willingly stay in a hotel with shared bathrooms). The mattresses had springs poking us, and the staff wouldn’t turn on the heat even though it was freezing cold. Some of the staff were kind of rude, too.