How surprising. Because usually the Ebonics speakers are meticulous in their adherence to Ebonics grammar.
See this is where it gets ridiculous. I did NOT cite it as an example for all funny black people. I threw it in as a crazy thing that was said and then said I’ve heard worse from white people, black people and all people in between but you’re walking away with the idea that I’m floating this as a black thing. Stupid people say stupid things when they’re in pain or scared. The fact that you’re trying to insinuate I’m citing this as a race thing is unfair, wrong, and straight up bullshit.
But people actually say “this here,” “these here,” “deez here,” “that there,” “that thar,” and various iterations of “this” or “that” that are pronounced incorrectly and/or come with the superfluous addition of “here.” It’s commonplace, so if you told me someone said “This here is some good rum,” I wouldn’t be skeptical because people actually speak that way. Doesn’t matter if it’s wrong. There is terrible grammar in the world, some of which is laughably bad, but again, no one would arrange their sentence to say “Troppus, all wrong are you on the topic this is.” That’s just not the way it works. No, we don’t expect people who routinely mangle the English language to stick with the strict grammatical conventions of language (obviously), but there are sentence structures that people just don’t say. I suppose it’s possible, the same way a lot of highly improbable shit is possible, but seriously, nobody says “My apt be messy” unless they mean to say “My apt is generally messy.”
It just seems pretty clear to me that the OP was mocking the way the man spoke, or perhaps all his mind registered was “black man yelling about his thumb in ungrammatical fashion,” which ran through his mind’s translator as “My thumb be hurtin,” but I would bet bajillions of dollars that this phrasing was not used. It is so bizarre that I’m skeptical and believe it was run through his White Man’s Filter, and is not an accurate transcript of what was said.
If someone, say, Italian screws up English due to it being a second language we don’t assume automatically that he’s “mocking” English, just that, not being fluent, he doesn’t quite get it right. Are you absolutely sure that he was “mocking” the language… or just not fluent in that dialect? One of the reasons white people do such a piss poor rendition of black dialects is because any attempt by them to do so is perceived as “mocking” even if it’s not intended as such. How much improvement can you expect if any attempt to use the dialect is met with hostility and negative assumptions? (Which is not, I hasten to add, to imply you yourself were hostile in your post) Black dialect is not the first language of most white people and by golly it shows.
As a result, your attempt to correct him on his usage of black English may not have come across as you intended it to, being seen as nitpicking or an attempt to discredit his stance or hostility or whatever even if that was not your intention.
Until we can all self-examine our words for unintended bias and assumptions discussions of race in the US will continue to be uglier than they need to be.
Sleeps, just because a dialect breaks the rules of grammar we are taught doesn’t mean it doesn’t have rules of its own. Here’s a short wiki on “habitual be.”
However, IMHO, the OP incorrectly inserting “be” into his memory does not a racist make. At least not a habitual one.
Every speaker tries to adhere to the grammar of their dialect. Communication would be mighty hard if they didn’t.
If I heard someone say “My dick be broke”, I would certainly wonder what kind of minstrel show they just auditioned for. Does this make me a meticulous speaker of Ebonics?
Ok. Ok. I didn’t think he was racist for his comment. I thought he was mistaken, or just kind of hamming it up a bit. I wasn’t sure it was mockery until he came back to the thread and didn’t address it. Even then, I don’t think that means he is a racist. Mocking black English doesn’t make one racist.
“Tries to” does not equal “succeeds to”. Claiming that every Ebonics speaker meticulously adheres to the Ebonics grammar is ridiculous on its face.
A lot of us took Linguistics in school. I sure suffered through it. Also had a job working with poor, homeless kids and their families, and I can vouch that most city kids used some mixture of southern slang and AAVE, as well as a sprinkling of words and phrases they picked up from pop culture. Cringed through"knockin boots" “booty call” “thick” (curvy) and many other sexual euphemisms kids picked up from the radio. Cringed when rural black kids attempted to sound more urban by using “be” instead of will or am, but I knew they were busy establishing a separate identity from rural white kids so I never once felt the need to correct their grammar. Language varies by region, bottom line.
The OP ruffled the same feathers that last month’s “fat girls” on the restaurant receipt: Maybe it’s true, maybe it isn’t; rude to say it aloud.
I understand that you are being defensive and sensitive about something you shouldn’t care about one way or the other. But that’s neither here nor there.
You were the one that quoted a black man in a thread about anti-black prejudice, where people were talking about improper Ebonics. The thread was not “Let’s talk about stupid things we’ve heard.” So I’m not about to apologize for reacting to your post the way I did.
When does my huff get here? I’m ready to go. Newcrasher, wait for me!
So it’s a good thing I didn’t claim this, isn’t it?
These here white folks are certainly trippin’!
Fair enough, but if someone were to relay what an Italian whose English isn’t so great said to me in a mangled up, fake Italian accent, I’d automatically assume that person was mocking. Just tell me what the person said, and stoppa talkinga likea theesa, with the exaggerated hand motions. No Italian guy talks like that, and saying he did is bullshit.
ETA: This is in response to **monstro.
**Honestly I don’t want an apology. I don’t need one or want one and I apologize if I gave that impression. I have something better. I now have knowledge of how you post, reason, react, and how you make judgements, accusations, and assumptions. That’s much more valuable and will assist me in the future when I read your posts.
Can anyone here who claims authority on Ebonics explain how Run DMC got away with it for so long?
What judgments, accusations, and assumptions have I made against you or anyone else? Please quote something so others can see how much I’ve bullied you. Maybe they can make you feel better.
When did Run DMC get away with using it the way the OP did?
You ain’t about to leave me here with this mess you made, girl!
Sleeps, was your patient trying to lighten the mood because he was feeling sheepish about his condition? Because he could have been speaking ironically to lighten the mood and take his embarrassment down a notch. It would be pretty hard to say “Sir, my penis is hurting.” in front of a mixed audience. It would be easier to joke around a bit “My dick be hurtin’” is funny. I kind of doubt the same guy would have said “My arm be hurting” when “My arm hurts” or “I hurt my arm”. I have no problem believing he said it, I’m just betting he was deliberately mangling the language to add levity.
I don’t know anyone who speaks with perfect grammar all the time, even native speakers screw up on occasion. Yet communication happens.
Most dialects spoken by white folks don’t an on-going state of being like some black American dialects do, hence “my apartment be messy” vs. the “standard white grammar” of “my apartment is usually messy” and both groups can say “my apartment is messy” meaning it’s a sty right now regardless of whatever state it is normally in. This distinction is pretty plain to someone like Nzinga but not to Joe Average White because to JAW “be” and “is” are the same thing when to Nzinga they’re not, more like the difference between “walk” and “walking”. Ask the white boy if he can’t hear the difference between “I am going for my daily walk” vs “I go walking daily.” One refers to a specific episode and one refers to an *ongoing *pattern of behavior.
Yes, yes, obvious to some of obvious, but provided to (I hope) enlighten some folks who are wondering what all the shouting is about.