I am currently working on restoring a Seeburg 1000 BMS2 unit–a background music system, featured front-and-center in this Techmoan video:
I’m pretty good with the mechanical portion–just recently I finished machining a new capstan and motor coupling–but the electronic part has me worried.
The part that is haunting me is the amplifier that you see in the bottom right, inside the front door as Techmoan swings it open in the video at the linked timestamp.
I’m afraid to even think about turning it on without checking all of the voltages coming out of the transformer and without testing all of the capacitors and replacing any in need.
So, to do this I will need a good multimeter. I have had crappy ones from Radio Shack over the years and those just won’t do. I would like a really nice one that will be suitable for this job.
To give an idea of the price range and quality I am looking at: Currently looking at the Fluke 117, because it does lots of useful things and has a handy-dandy contactless voltage sensor feature (nice for home electrical work). I would use it for this project and then as my regular meter for home electrical work.
For what it’s worth, the amplifier schematic is on page 15 of this PDF document.
I’m happy with the BK Precision 2709B. It’s somewhat cheaper than the Fluke (~$100, sometimes less on sale) but still a high quality device. I bought mine about 8 years ago after Dave from EEVBlog gave it a thumbs up. Still going strong.
It doesn’t have contactless probing (which really I don’t much recommend anyway), but has everything else you’ll likely need.
If your main use is for home electrical work, the Fluke 117 is probably a bit of overkill, but it will definitely do the job. You pretty much can’t go wrong with a Fluke, but you pay for the name (and reputation).
I personally use Flukes at work, but for home use, I’m not willing to shell out that much cash. You can easily find a good meter that’s definitely a step or two up from the old Radio Shack junk at half the price of the Fluke.
You can also find decent meters in the $100 or so range that have capacitor and transistor checking capabilities, which would be much better for repairing electronics. I also personally find an oscilloscope to be fairly helpful when troubleshooting amplifiers.
Given the age of the machine, I’d probably just shotgun it and replace all of the electrolytic caps.
Thanks, and the unfamiliarity with the subject matter is precisely why I’m asking here.
If someone asked me about a good lathe for a hobbyist or perhaps opinions on a dial test indicator (Do I need Mitutoyo / Starrett, or can I use one of the cheaper ones from China?), I would be able to provide plenty of advice, but now I’m on the other side of that problem–I am the noob with questions.
What tools would you recommend for the electronics novice trying to bumble through this project? Is Dr.Strangelove’s BK Precision 2709B a good solid tool for the job, in which case I’ll order one right away and save the $$$. What features do I really need?
Are there other tools I really should include in my setup? If so, a couple ideas on model numbers that could be trusted would help.
I may end up repairing more of these in the future (this is the 3rd one where I have done the mechanical work), so I wouldn’t shy away from having the right tools for the job.
That looks like it has the key features that the Fluke has, and if it’s a reliable performer then I’d go for it. Like my note above indicates, I’m way out of my element with this gear, so specific models recommended for a novice doing this specific repair job are welcome.
In terms of features, lots of multimeters will fit the bill. Resistance/voltage/current are absolute requirements of course. The BK has auto-ranging voltage, but not auto-ranging current, which is a very mild downside compared to the Fluke, but this is not a huge deal (the Fluke requires a different plug if you need the 10 A mode anyway).
One feature you’ll find handy is the continuity test. This is actually the primary reason why I bought this model, given the EEVBlog review–it’s very responsive, and beeps almost instantly (under 1/10 s) when it detects continuity. I’m sure the Fluke is at least as good, but cheap meters do badly here, often taking 0.5-1 seconds to beep. When you’re quickly verifying traces, this is super important.
The BK has a capacitance test; I don’t know how accurate it is, but it’s easily good enough to check if your caps are totally hosed or not.
The BK has auto power off, and works on a rechargeable 9 V battery (not always true, since NiMH batteries in that form factor are usually 7.2 V). The battery lasts a long time in any case.
Overall I’ve been super happy with it, and it’s been my “good” meter for 8 years. I have a few cheaper meters scattered about just in case I don’t want to run down to the garage or whatever, but I go to the BK when I’m doing anything important.
I ordered the meter for $84 on Amazon, should get here by Wednesday. Thanks for giving a solid recommendation. Now I’ll have to see if it gets me where I need to go.
Eh. I have plenty of those meters, either from HF or gotten as freebies from whatever. And while they do function in a borderline-acceptable manner some of the time, anyone that’s used to higher quality tools will be disappointed.
It’s not just the raw functionality. It’s things like the probes (large, pencil-sized on the BK, soft silicone insulation, etc., versus flimsy, stiff, hard-to hold probes on the cheap meters). Small but important features like auto-shutoff. A large display, beefy housing that will stand up on its own, etc.
If I’m traveling and need test equipment, I’ll frequently throw in HF as a backup, but they just aren’t that pleasant to use.
Well, as a guy with maybe 10 DMMs and 4 oscilloscopes, I understand wanting to have a decent one, but if this is a one-shot deal, there is no need to spend a lot of money on a really good one (although I see that the OP has already made a purchase).
“I would use it for this project and then as my regular meter for home electrical work.”
“I may end up repairing more of these in the future (this is the 3rd one where I have done the mechanical work), so I wouldn’t shy away from having the right tools for the job.”
It’s not a one-shot deal, though I am not about to set up a full electronics workshop.
Basically, I don’t like working with cheap tools, especially in an area that I am unfamiliar. I don’t want to have to question whether my tools are doing their job.
I know the Radio Shack meter is insufficient, and it appears that the one I ordered should do the job.
I’ll go along with all of this. Fluke is great stuff but expensive and, for better or for worse, hold value well on the preowned market. I also use them at work but have inferior but adequate meters at home. I’d sooner put the extra money into a better soldering station. And any 'lytic caps should be replaced as a matter of course.
Ah yes… soldering stations. I have gone through way too many cheap crappy soldering irons over the years.
Got a good soldering station you could recommend?
ETA: I am getting the picture that Fluke is the Starrett of multimeters. I like to use my Starrett tools but wouldn’t recommend them to a starting hobbyist,
I needed two stations as I transition to a new office, and this seemed like a good deal. I’m very happy with it. Heats up super fast, and has a nice auto-idle mode. Iron is lightweight and well balanced.
Hakko is another good choice in that price range. As always, it’s possible to spend a lot more, but ~$100 gets you a reasonable kit.
I have a hot air station which honestly isn’t very good (basically this one, though there are a bunch of similar clones out there). I’d rather have a higher-quality station dedicated to ordinary soldering, but I needed this for SMD rework and component salvage and I didn’t want to spend a ton. In your case, a plain pencil-type station will serve your needs well.
I have a Weller EC2001 display adjustable, looks like maybe an ancestor of @beowulff 's WE1010. Sort of like Fluke gear, I wouldn’t have paid market price for a used one but I came across a deal at a hamfest (electronics flea market). I think it was $45. Even the fixed temp ones are good and not too expensive.
Somewhat related side discussion: What’s everyone’s preferred tip temperature? I like it hotter than a government-trained coworker prefers: about 650 F. I work better with a hot iron and a quick touch. More heat but shorter tiptime.
I like a really hot iron. I use 786°F when I’m working with lead-free solder (hate the stuff), and 750°F or so when I’m using 63/37. A hot iron lets me make really quick solder joints, and I think that is better than a longer, lower-temperature soak, and faster (of course).
Ok, ya, agree. That’s pretty hot.
We’re lucky that were not in a leadless solder RoHS or similar restricted situation so I’ve never really dealt with it. By all account’s it’s far worse.
It just doesn’t have the same “feel” has 63/37. ROHS solder doesn’t make shiny joints, so it’s a lot harder to tell if you have made a good connection. It also doesn’t flow anywhere near as well.
But, I guess it’s the future, so better get used to it…
