He says that the majority of meat produced by deer hunting goes to waste.
I say that the vast majority of meat produced by deer hunting is consumed by the hunter, hunter’s family, or given to someone who will use it (friends, relatives, poor people, organizations).
There is a side bet between a girl and I.
I claim that deer need to be hunted to avoid overpopulation.
She claims deer would do just fine without hunting and that their population would remain stable.
In order to win, I need cites. By Sunday, 12:30. I realize most of you don’t read during the weekend, but any help would be appreciated.
As a WAG I’d say that based on what the typical deer costs to acquire via modern hunting methods that the choicest cut of a Kobe beef cow fed on sake and hand sorted alfala would be less expensive. I’d bet that most deer are not wasted.
“Ewww… Dad. Venison tastes weird.”
“Chew that deer Junior. It cost $ 35.00 a pound to bag that buck and I’m not wasting a mouthful!”
Here in Iowa many towns are permitting hunting in town. The deer population is that large. They are over browsing the park areas. That means that the brousable vegetation is not able to grow back. If your girlfriend considers starvation to be an acceptable population control then she is right. The wolf,the natural predator of the deer is no longer roaming wild so the only population control is man.
Try searching under (urban deer population control).
As far as your friend at work goes he doesn’t know any deer hunters does he?
I would suggest contacting a local meat market and ask them how much they butcher. Around here anyone that wants a pig or steer butchered knows better than to have it done during deer season.
Also you might ask your girlfriend weather she considers the family sedan an acceptable population control device.
IIRC Davenport and Iowa city in Iowa have had problems and now have a controlled hunt within the city limits.
First of all, if venison tastes “wierd” then someone isn’t taking care to process their deer correctly. In Iowa, where the deer eat lots of corn, the steaks are fabulous. I wish we had some wild elk. Hey, DNR, you listening??
Hunters don’t waste meat. Unfortunately, the number one cause for mortality appears to be vehicle/deer collisions, followed by poaching (probably no waste there, huh?) and finally legal harvesting.
Overpopulation of game animals and the damage they cause has been documented quite extensively. It not only leads to starvation, (That’s a waste!) it impacts on the environment enough to reduce the carrying capacity for years to come.
So, what did the Deer do before we started to help by slaughtering them en masse? The poor Deer must be eternally grateful that we have come along to keep them from starving to death.
Here, in Massachusetts, we hunt Deer because we are in a killed-or-be-killed situation. These vicious deer attack without warning. They nibble toes, and rub noses with abandon. They must be stopped.
(Warning: In Massachusetts it is illegal to shoot intruders in your home. Unless it is a deer.)
With apologies to the OP for wandering off topic (It’s to late anyway, the bet is over)
Ummmm, predator’s perhaps? Imagine shooting all the little critters who do viciously attack people when they aren’t eating deer. Now things are out of whack and those lovable little Bambi’s got at it like Thumper in heat.
The people population of Massachusetts has gone up a lot since the 1600’s. That pushes the deer into the dwindling amout of unused land, creating overpopulation. As BigJoe points out, people do kill the animals that will attack people [and livestock]. The reduction in preditors also results in overpopulation of deer.
You must have a large overpopulation of deer up there if the state lets people slaughter them en masse. Down here, the state typically restricts a hunter to 1-2 deer [more in counties with more deer]. Most hunters do not even get that many.
My husband hunts and has gotten several deer over the past few years.
We eat the meat ourselves, (we have a big freezer) and give some to family and friends. Venison is delicious, if prepared correctly. We have stew made with venison, deer steaks and we even get some of the meat ground and have “Bambi-burgers.” They tend to be a little dryer than regular Cow-burgers, but if you cook them right, they are fine. I can use ground venison in place of ground beef in almost any recipe.
A friend of his tried to donate deer meat to a local soup kitchen once and was turned away, being told that people that frequent the place won’t eat deer meat because it’s “weird”. I always thought that “Beggars can’t be choosers”, but apparently they can…
I don’t know if this helps you out or not, but for us, the meat is definately not wasted.
Actually there are several organizations that are specifically set up to accept venison from hunters that don’t want it and give it to the needy.
As for the overpopulation not only did we shoot all the predators (mountain lions, panthers, wolves, coyotes etc.)but we cleared huge tracts of land. Farmland produces an easy accessable food source for deer whether it be corn, alfalfa, or grasses that provides for much better than the native forests would have.
As for cutting and cooking the meat the more attention paid to removing the fat the less ‘gamey’ the venison will taste.
I don’t see much venision go to waste. The serious hunters like the taste of it. The recreational hunter that doesn’t like the taste usually doesn’t shoot many deer because they are trophy hunting and are very particular about shooting a specific deer.
As for population control that is the reason stated by virtually state’s department of environmental conservation when setting hunting seasons and issuing licenses and permits. I know that here in NY the number of doe permits are tied to the DEC’s population estimates. Yes I suppose that not allowing deer hunting would result eventually in a balanced population. The causes of death would change from a bullet to a car, winter starvation or disease spread quickly from greater interaction within deer herds.
[[I claim that deer need to be hunted to avoid overpopulation.
She claims deer would do just fine without hunting and that their population would remain stable.]]
In my part of the country, deer (and other game) populations are managed, controlled, and even moved to new areas by the Game and Fish Dept. specifically with hunting in mind. They even brought in African oryxes for awhile. I doubt we have enough other natural carnivores around to control them anymore. Mexican wolves have been re-introduced in a few places, but it’ll be awhile before they take over their previous niche. - Jill
(This is smoked venison sausage - wonderful stuff. Haven’t had it since I was a kid)
Deer hunting was a rite of passage of sorts where I grew up. It would have been considered contemptible to kill the animal without eating it. Venison is good, BTW. Tends to be dry - my mother used to prepare venison roasts by wrapping them with bacon. The fat is like lamb in having that unpleasant mouth-coating feature if allowed to get cold, though. Frankly, deer bagged where they’ve been raiding farmer’s fields are much better eating than those bagged in the more extensive forests, where they’ve been exclusively browsing wild growth. Does are better eating than the trophy buck somebody got - by the time the critter has a big set of antlers, it’s old and tough.
Yes, in many areas the natural predators, like wolves and mountain lions, are long gone. The deer can quickly overpopulate and controls are neccesary. A well-regulated hunting season is a reasonable way to keep the deer population stabilized. Otherwise, you’d probably have to expend tax dollars to hire professional hunters to thin the herd, rather than getting tax revenue from sport hunters.
The only big game hunter I know never wastes any good meat. He admits, occ, he was asked to 'thin out" some goats & pigs, but as the pigs were highly infested, he had to leave them.
Now, speaking as a someone whose degree is in Environmental sci- the deer population, as we are now the “natural predators” in many ares, would grow, eat all the food, and then starve back to a mangeable/smaller size in about 2 generations. Of, course, if we brought back in predators, they could balance the deer population, but wolves do not like being near citys, or anywhere near people, and Mt. lions will occ attack humans, and definately pets, so they are not all that safe to have lots of them around. Deer, on the other hand, will happily come into your backyard to browse. So, in areas where humans & deer live together, I am afraid it is either hunters, or cars, for predators. I think hunters are a bit more humane, don’t you?
In high school, a male friend of mine always went hunting with his Dad (actually, was forced to go hunting with Dad). So one time, he actually shot a rather large antelope. Then his Dad informed him of “the law of the hunt”, which was if you shoot it, you have to eat the whole thing.
For MONTHS he was eating that thing. Every day for lunch, his Mom would pack antelope sausage, antelope jerky, antelope cold cuts, broiled antelope - and he wasn’t allowed to waste it or throw it away. Every day he would bring his lunch, give it to someone else, and buy Ding Dongs from the vending machine in the cafeteria.
After a couple months, none of us ever wanted to see any part of an antelope again, and he ended up throwing it away.
The rub is - the next time his Dad went hunting, the guy refused to go, because he didn’t want to be eating Moose or Deer or Wolverine or whatever for several months. His Dad said it was “disrespectful” not to join the hunt, and actually grounded a 17-year old kid for a month. So he ran away from home and joined the Navy.
Jesus H. Christ, Anthracite! Your friend’s dad sure knew the best way to turn a kid off from hunting! Law of the hunt, eh? Next time, I’m killin’ a fuckin’ STEER!
As for the OP, I doubt you’re going to win those bets based on the responses you’ve gotten, but I’m sure if you visited some websites of some state fish & game agencies, you’d find supporting evidence. You are right…you just need to get the numbers that prove you’re right.
I have helped eat more than one venison roast that some hunter had killed and did not wish to eat. I think most venison is eaten, but not always by hunters or their families.
Yes, hunting is responsible for the low numbers of many species. Deer were less common at one point from drastic changes in habitat and possibly overhunting, but those days have passed for the midwest’s white-tailed deer.
The white-tailed deer has learned to cope amazingly well. I live in cook county and I have seen several near my house. Hunting, when done reasonably safely and under the strict management can help regulate the population without decimating it. It can also encourage genetic diversity by avoiding the very lowest population levels that occur due to overpopulation.
There are plenty of species that should not be hunted. Some species of ducks have nearly dissappeared partially due to overhunting. If you are really worried about over preditation by humans, please turn to those who kill protected species or look into overfishing. Some of the fish that we most like to eat have dwindling populations.
Remember when the bald eagle was almost extinct? Now it is doing well. It was devistated by chemicals, not hunting. At one point Ostriches were getting rare because they were overhunted for feathers. They are no longer so endangered.
<rant>
You want to attack hunting attack it from the angle that idiots with guns, sometimes drunk idiots with guns, shoot at anything that moves and do not follow even the basics of safety and act like shooting women in their own back yard is the woman’s fault for not wearing blaze orange during hunting season, IN HER OWN BACK YARD! or shoot at cows and other live stock because they can’t tell the difference! </rant>
Yeah, the bet is over, but he lost, also, because he didn’t bring anything to back HIS side up, either. And I overslept, so I didn’t have time to look for myself before work. Okay, okay, okay. I admit it. I’m lazy and just didn’t feel like looking.
Oh, she is NOT my girlfriend. She’s married, and somewhat unattractive.
But I do have some new viewpoints and angles to attack his points from.
And you think there are no species of duck today that should not be hunted? I did not say that it was legal to hunt all duck species, just that some should not now be hunted. Some people do hunt illegally. Please look at: http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/1998/canbacks/results.htm
This deals with the impact of illegal hunting on the canvasback duck.
As for the OP, I doubt you’re going to win those bets based on the responses you’ve gotten, but I’m sure if you visited some websites of some state fish & game agencies, you’d find supporting evidence. You are right…you just need to get the numbers that prove you’re right
Are you kidding!
Did you even go to the site that I suggested. That contains more than enough info win his bet. I have to admit I didn’t take the time to look at each one but the first one from Nebraska was impressive enough.If you go further you will find one fellows rant about the Sierra club.There is a lot of information there.
It appears that you were right. The OP wanted someone to do his research for him. Sorry Homer but it is your arguement. If you wanted to really win you’d have picked some of those I suggested and gathered enough ammo to win impressively.
To Lee
State agencies do not have an inexhaustable amount of money to use so any "numbers " you get from them would not be current.Thus shooting,pun intended ,them down as the bestsource of info.