The most common killer of children, however, is their parents. Sometimes parents kill without any warning whatsoever. Murderous parents are unpredicatable, too.
In light of that much more (statistically) urgent information, I hope you’re prepared to get rid of your damn spouse long before you’d get rid of the dog.
The dog that attacked my friend was not a pit bull (I’ve known lovely pit bulls), but a Golden Retriever - a dog that had been in the family for years. A breed known for its easy going disposition.
If parents are acting inappropriately aggressively to the child, that situation should also be solved by the child or parent being removed. The time to retrain the parent through anger management classes are not when the child is in the home - if the situation is bad enough that you think physical harm will occur.
I have a dog. I like dogs. I have kids. But dogs do not train instantly and while there is a small child in the house and a dog that is showing aggressive behavior, the situation is very dangerous for the child. A nine month old crawler is going to become a eighteen month runner around and possible tail puller. The next two years are very hard to parent - you don’t keep your eye on a toddler every minute they are awake and toddlers do not come with a lot of common sense built in. Any animals in the house need to not add to the problem.
I don’t get why this isn’t scaring the crap out of everyone else.
Hi, mind if someone with a lot of dog training experience comes into the thread to make some suggestions?
My background involves training service dogs, working dogs (SAR, arson, narcotics, explosives and other detection dogs, protection and schutzhund dogs) and pets. I have worked with countless dogs with common behavior issues much like yours.
What you describe, torie, is not an uncommon problem. In fact, your doc is actually being a dog. I’d rather see an honest dog than one who pretends all is well with a crawling infant or wobbling toddler and then snaps when he’s had enough. If I had a dollar for every time I heard “But Muffy was so good with the baby! I don’t know what happened!” I’d be a rich girl.
So. YES, you can train the two critters to get along. Right now, your dog sees the baby as another dog. For now, your best bet is to isolate and conquer. When the kid is out and about and crawling, crate the dog. Teach the dog to wear a basket muzzle (don’t use a nylon one, they’re uncomfortable and don’t allow the dog to pant) for when it’s out and about with the child. They make small ones for little dogs like yours. Train the dog to wear one putting treats into the muzzle. Keep the dog leashed next to you when he wears the muzzle and the child is out. We call this “tethering” training, re-establishing your pack dominance on the dog and establishing the child as YOUR property. Little dogs often forget their place in the pack because, well, as owners we forget to assert it with little dogs 
and they get “big dog complex” really easily. Read up on the “Nothing In Life is Free” training method for your dog. It might be good to put him on that training approach for a little while.
I’d consider contacting Dr. Moon at the Tufts University behavioral clinic – she’s awesome and does amazing consulting work. Drop me a private message, I’ll give you her contact information if you’d like. She’ll tailor an intervention plan specifically for your family and your dog and do all the follow up work for you guys with her team. Hell, she can even organize things with your vet and get your pup on Prozac if you guys think it may help mellow him out while you transition him through this process.
Seriously, there’s LOTS you can do to help your dog through this stressful time. And it IS stressful. Suddenly, there’s this new threat to his place in the pack in the house – this new creature on all fours threatening his place in the pack and possibly threatening his food! Dogs can live side by side with kids very safely. It’s a matter of MANAGEMENT and SAFETY FIRST. Crates, muzzles, and proper training along with constant vigilance are the only way to go… along with proper human training.
Let me know if I can be of help putting you on the right track. There’s help out there, if you know where to go and who to ask.
Yay, Elenfair!
Several reasons. First, the concern I have is mitigated because this is the dog we’re talking about. Not a Golden Retriever. The average shih tzu is under a foot tall and less than 15lbs, smaller than several of of my cats and probably less dangerous. I’d be more worried about a cat who couldn’t accept the baby and was aggressive than of a shih tzu.
My second reason for lack of hysterical fear is that torie seems to be quite diligent and aware of the situation, not downplaying it or pretending it doesn’t exist. I give torie credit for being completely capable of ensuring the safety of her child while also trying to train the (very small) dog so they can co-exist. Elenfair, who has expertise in this matter, seems to agree it can be done. So, maybe an apology for telling torie to put her kid in foster care is in order, no?
Small dogs CAN cause damage to little kids. I’ve seen it happen. It happens when people believe “Muffy wouldn’t do such a thing” and let Bratleigh climb all over Muffy for facefulls-o’-kisses and Muffy decides he’s had enough. I’ve seen 5 pounders bite hard enough to puncture adult skin. That said? Careful management and an expert’s intervention can remedy the situation.
Right now, the dog is giving the child (and the adult pack leader) appropriate warning signals, not aggressive, uncontrolled and unpredictable warning signals: the dog is not randomly attacking the child, not attacking unprovoked, and not unpredictable. In fact, it’s letting everyone know that it is uncomfortable, feeling like someone is crowding its space and to please “back the hell off, k, thanks, love you all, bye.” This is appropriate DOG behavior. What the dog needs to learn is that this is inappropriate behavior around a child this age. The dog has NO WAY TO KNOW this. What it is doing is TOTALLY appropriate DOG behavior. It’s what you’d do, as a dog, to a puppy. What we’re asking it to do around a child is NOT a natural dog behavior.
So, as humans, we get to teach it. WHILE THE DOG IS LEARNING THIS NEW BEHAVIOR, part of our responsibility is to be cautious. Dog nose is at child-face height. Better safe than sorry. That’s why we have basket muzzles, that’s why we have access to good dog trainers and behaviorists who develop great, positive training techniques like NILIF and tether training.
I’m currently expecting our first child. We have four dogs. One worked with autistic and troubled children all his life, but he’s 11 and deaf now. While I trust him with just about any child at any age, I will also manage him carefully. One is a bouncy aussie who knocks adults over when she’s excited. She’ll require some careful supervision around a crawling child. One is a rescue who can’t be trusted. He has a basket muzzle. One is my seizure alert dog who, though probably the most sound, work-ethic wise, has no sense of humor what-so-ever. He has a strong pack-drive and is a disciplinarian with the other dogs. I trust him with my life, I trust him with my home. He, too, has a basket muzzle (he would have made an outstanding schutzhund prospect, this dog!) and I plan to use it. I have a pack, at 4 dogs in the house. I know it will require careful management around a young child, until the child is able to control the dogs herself.
Dogs are pets. They’re our friends, our companions, our pals. They are also, at heart, wild animals that we have learned to train to live with us as companions. When push comes to shove, they revert back to pack behavior and pack learning. We can’t fault them for that. We also can’t assume that they will stop behaving like dogs just because they’ve been around humans for centuries. The minute we become complacent, accidents happen. Children and dogs can be the best of friends. I grew up with dogs and started training them early. Before I went into my current career as a screenwriter, I trained dogs (and still do) for fun and as public service. I loved every minute of it…
The catch is not getting fooled into anthropomorphizing the little bastards
I’ll add a bit to what Elenfair has suggested which is all gold material BTW. The dog doesn’t just feel a need to establish his dominance, he is uncertain of his place, which makes him very nervous. Everything is uncertain! To make it worse, the Thing that got all the attention is now The thing that crawls around, grabs at me and gets all the attention. Java is no longer a young dog, but by the usual breed standard he’s only a little past middle age. Obviously he cannot be permitted to bite the baby, but sometimes immersion training helps. He might feel he’s being rewarded for his nasty behaviour by the fuss you make over him. he get’s picked up, talked to, and placed in his pen (with toys and chewies to keep him busy no doubt). You may want to try the Ceaser Milan-esque version of keeping them together, correcting him when he starts growling, and rewarding him when he is good. Start with Java leashed close to you, and simply in the same room with the kid. let the kid play on the floor with something so he’s not grabbing at the dog. If java starts up, he gets corrected and ignored. if he’s calm and good, he receives praise and cookies. once you are confident that they can co-exist, let Leo pet him gently, while you ensure that the mouth is secure. Rinse, repeat the correction reward period.
The rest of you hysterical respondents are twits, at least when it comes to this issue. I’m sensing at least a little bit of dog-hating and fear from a lot of you. The dog is not a ravening beast looking to kill the child, it is jealous, and it’s world and routine has been turned upside down. When you get a pet, it is for life, and it is YOUR responsibility to make accommodations to work things out. Only clinical cases should be throw-away pets. Our new puppy is from EXACTLY the same type of situation. New baby, no time to train the puppy. Hell it’s just a dog right? Throw it away!
I meant to add but missed the edit timeframe: This is the photo I show parents when I explain Dog on Dog discipline. This is a photo of my oldest dog disciplining my youngest pup for being a total annoying little dipshit.
This is typical dog discipline, Dog-on-Puppy. When an adult dog bites a young child in the face for being annoying, this is the behavior that is being reproduced. It’s mother-dog grabbing annoying puppy by the muzzle and saying “Knock it the fuck off, Junior.”
Some dogs have pretty high thresholds when it comes to patience with babies and toddlers. Others, not so much. Some will be fine with the first and second child in a family and just lose it with child number 3. Others are fine with the first generation and then flip out when they’re older. The truth is, EVERY dog has his limit. EVERY dog can and will discipline a “young pup” when he reaches that limit, and when he does, it’ll be in the way he was disciplined when HE was a young pup. It’s not out of aggression or because he’s a “bad dog”. It’s because he’s a DOG.
Unless the dog is attacking UNPROVOKED, not giving ANY warning and snapping, not showing ANY signs of stress (ears back, panting, pacing, anxiety, clinging more than usual, separation anxiety, demanding more attention, etc.), growling in warning when the child gets too close to “his stuff” and his food, becoming more territorial? Then the dog CAN be trained. Whether or not the owner wants to take the time and spend the energy to do that is a different question entirely.
A dog that is UNSTABLE and AGGRESSIVE? (And some little dogs can TOTALLY be that way) That’s a completely different ball of wax.
Thank you so much, Elenfair, for bringing some reason to this crazy hysterical thread!
torie, I don’t have anything useful to add except: you’re doing great. You’re being a fantastic mother and a responsible dog owner and there’s no possibly way any rational person with any sort of education about dogs could say, based on what you’ve said here, that you should get rid of either dog or baby at this point. Continue on your sensible path and you’ll be fine. If training doesn’t work, then your decision won’t be hard at all, but you’re not at that point yet, and you know it, and that’s exactly right.
Elenfair, thank you thank you thank you. You have been very insightful and I think you are exactly right. Java is not unstable, she does give us plenty of warning when she is feeling stressed. She gets very stressed around other dogs and behaves exactly the way she is now, so when the behaviour first started, I knew what it meant and started taking precautions.
So what I have to do is get it through to Java that she is below Leo in the hierarchy, so she does not feel as though it is her place to discipline him. Knowing that helps, thank you.
Thanks to everyone who offered advice in this thread. I appreciated it all, in different ways. 
Well am sure to be hated for this but when our daughter was two years old our Dalmatian lab mix bit her over some food. It was a snap and it just broke the skin.
But I had the dog put down the same day. I called my vet to ask advice and she said there are too many dogs out there that will not show aggression that I would not take the chance with a large dog and a small child.
I must say this had never happened before and we owned the dog for about a year.
I cried when she was put down, but if this was a warning and something bad happened to my child or someone else, I would look back on this day with regret.
Child vs. loved dog, Child wins
Just to counteract **Skald the Rhymer’s ** list:
Frannkly, though, unless you’re willing to remove the dog from the area the baby is in, I’d say get rid of the dog. I love dogs. I have five large dogs, including two dobermans. With any animal there is a risk of danger, but in my mind, if the dog shows agression, that risk becomes unreasonable. If you’re willing to confine the dog to the kitchen and the back yard so they don’t come in contact until the baby is older, I’d consider keeping him. But yeah, baby trumps dogs on the “needs to be protected” scale.
StG
And why not re-home the dog in a home without children? That can deal with a dog showing normal dog behaviour, that had the time to deal with the dog, and where it wouldn’t be an un-safe situation for all concerned.
I understand not wanting to put your child in jeopardy, but this reaction I don’t understand. It seems so black and white to some people. You even say that it was agression over food. Not something to take lightly, but something that can be fixed with a little time and effort, even if it is not you that puts that effort in.
To be honest, it just makes me sad that things like this happen.
Child’s age? 2 or 3.
Parent’s response? Muffy never did that before.
Scenario? Dog was eating something.
I told you, I would be rich if I had a penny for every time I heard that story.
It’s all too common, and so many dogs get put down because of it. They’re protecting their food. If a strange dog or puppy had approached them, they’d have done the same thing. Most vets will tell you to put the dog down because it can’t be trusted. Frankly, it’s probably the best thing because what the vet means to say is: the owner can’t be trusted to train the dog or do the right thing by the dog and the child in the house.
To fix the problem, you have to be diligent, 24/7. You have to put safeguards in place. I know, for having trained countless families (the humans, first and foremost) and their pets.
First of all, you never feed the dog where the child is going to be and where it will bloody well be at nose height near the dog. That’s just not very smart. The child is threatening the dog’s food. Pack-behavior wise? The dog is protecting its food. Watch wolves eat, sometime. The higher the wolf is in a pack, the likelier it is to tell the young upstart to piss off while it eats first.
ALWAYS feed the dog in its crate, away from the child, where it won’t be disturbed and where it can eat in peace. Its crate is its sanctuary. Child can be taught early on that the crate is NOT a place for it to be, approach, or touch. Just like the stove. That’s where the dog goes when he/she wants to be left alone. That’s where it eats, sleeps, hides its prized possessions. You go there and the wrath of the Alpha Dog (that’d be Mom/Dad) comes down on you. DOG has to know that you, as the Alpha of the Pack are in control and that YOU make all the decisions. That way, it won’t have to discipline this Human Puppy. You can handle it just fine…
This is one of those simple ways where the whole “food time issues with Muffy” can be easily avoided. Dog biscuits, chews, food? All go in the crate or the dog pen. Away from little hands and fingers and faces. Child and Dog both are taught, early, about that boundary. Voila. Simple.
I got a great little Jack Russell Terrier that way. He nipped at a two year old and his family put him into Russell Rescue. This is how they described the behavior that got him shipped out.
Child approached dog in corner.
Dog growled at child.
Child kept coming.
Dog bit child.
As **Elenfair **has pointed out, this is perfectly normal dog behavior. And the bite did not even break the skin. It was just a more stern warning than the growl was.
By the way, he was 7 when I adopted him, and 12 when he died, just over a year ago. I had five wonderful years with him. Frankly, I have just now got to the point where I can talk about him without tearing up. He was 100 lbs. of personality in a 10 lb. package.
If Java’s not spayed, get that done ASAP. The vast majority of serious dog attacks involve an unneutered male dog. I don’t think unspayed females have quite the same risk, but she presumably will be more emotionally stable without all those hormones, and that can’t hurt.
This is also perfectly normal child behaviour, and in the pack hierarchy the child trumps the dog every time, or ought to. It’s the dog’s role to conform, not the child’s, and if it can’t or won’t then it’s time for the lead tablet.
Sure, I agree. But until Elenfair’s post, **torie **hadn’t known how to tell the dog that. Don’t you think (since no harm has come to the child and torie’s perfectly willing to keep the two physically separated) that maybe the dog should get the memo before the bullet? It’s not a matter (yet) of “can’t or won’t”, it’s that she just doesn’t know.
But of course, I absolutely agree that if **torie **tries Elenfair’s suggestions, including getting a professional’s advice, and then the dog can’t or won’t adjust her attitude, then re-homing or even euthanasia would be in order. But that isn’t the situation presented in the OP that sent people off the deep end.
Nice selective reading. Did you miss the part where the dog was re-homed, with no lead tablet required?
Where in this thread is the evidence that the OP’s dog “can’t or won’t” conform?
If I had a child that continued pestering a growling animal you can bet your ass that I would get it to change that behavior.
Wow, what s bunch of ill informed hysterical rude posters. Elenfair, I am so glad you showed up with some sensible advise that torie could use to counter the absolute bullshit that was being thrown her way.
torie, keep doing what you’re doing, you obviously are taking the dog/baby situation seriously. The over the top bullshit that is being thrown your way is just wrong.
Good luck and keep us posted, by PM if you don’t want to post anymore here. I sure as hell wouldn’t blame you…
