Four Points:
A) It’s easy to pronounce, shit-for-spinal fluid.
B) I’m glad he made you feel stupid, because you are stupid.
C) Hi Opal 
D) When post full of shit, nitpick removes the overflow of shit.
I would like to have compassion for the East Timorese as well as those killed on 9-11. However, if there is a stringent disinformation campaign imposed by the US then how am I supposed to if they won’t even inform us. I’m starting a new thread somewhere.
thinksnow, Michael Ellis., I don’t expect you to get worked up over the hundred thousand killed in East Timor. Why should you? It wasn’t broadcast on every major news station for two weeks straight.
If it were, would you feel/act any differently? The way you are acting now I doubt it. This thread has now reached hijack status and I would gladly start a new thread specifically regarding media disinformation in the USA if a mod sees it fit.
Alright, I denounce my “pseudo-hippiedom”.
I acknoweldge that America always has the right to take lives at will. American humans are more important than other humans. I shall not critically study America’s past, nor shall I mention the blood that drips from her hands. I shall no longer value human life above all. I shall no longer hope for peace, much less publically display this hope. I shall no longer think in a critical manner about my country, it’s actions, the meaning of morality or the future. Instead, I shall no longer strive to fight the ignorance that spreads complacency and the eventual slaughter that complacency breeds.
sigh
I hate to get dogmatic on y’alls asses, but damn! Peace would make the world better! Death would make the world worse! America has perpetrated it’s share of injustice, and we can hardly paint ourself as the innocent. Sure, nothing excuses more violence, but it does nobody any good to get so caught up in jingoism that we are not allowed to examine the ways in which acts of death of all types by all parties could be avoided in the past, present and future.
I know that some of the emissaries of peace on this board have not been the most eloquent. I beg that they keep from relying the same formulatic sloganism that they battle.
But I stand firm. Not killing is better than killing. Peace is a thing to hope and strive for. Ideals, even romantic ones, are worth valueing and upholding.
Remarkably, amongst all the heated, er, discussion on this thread, the statements in this particular post, stuck in the middle of the first page, most directly addressed a lot of what’s being said here and in other places. Thus, I reply.
First, I want to make it clear that it seems to me that a miltary response, covert or otherwise, may be the only way to respond to the attacks (although certainly not the ONLY thing to do). But… (see below)
Of course not. Though I do think we should be careful about dismissing civilian casualties as “collateral damage,” which military-types may tend to do in a time like this. If we’re going to do this, and it looks like we should and will, we’d better make DAMN sure we do it right.
I’m sorry, but I don’t believe them. Or maybe they have a different definition of “compromise” than I do. I believe that given the climate in America today, that they WILL attempt to pass laws that squelch civil liberties; various government officials have said as much when they talk about “having” to “rethink” certain freedoms (I’ll dig up cites when I can). And I do mean “freedoms,” not conveniences like e-tickets or curbside check-ins. It’s already happening. And that scares the hell out of me. I’m not saying that it’s inevitable, but I don’t think the reality should be dismissed out of hand.
Still, I do find it heartening that there seems to be quite a bit of mainstream attention directed to making sure it doesn’t happen.
Okay, this actually addresses the thing that concerns me the most. The buildup in the Gulf makes it feel like there IS no investigation, that the government’s already decided bin Laden is guilty without any solid evidence, and is willing to bomb the hell out of a foreign country without looking any further no matter what the consequences. Not that I think he’s innocent, but if we’re going to do this, we HAVE to have SOMETHING so the rest of the world (the reasonable parts, anyway) doesn’t think we’re doing this for no reason (or worse, because we’re anti-Islam).
Perhaps they do have some proof that they’re not willing to show, for reasons that another post has already suggested. And I can definitely understand Bush’s tough talk in the speech. I just interpret the military movements as a signal that we’re not even considering any other suspects (or any co-conspirators who worked with bin Laden, should he be it), and are about to bomb very very soon, evidence or no. Hope I’m wrong.
Unfortunately, yes.
Yes, BUT…
Just how do you resolve matters peacefully with terrorists, especially religious zealots, especially people that several countries around the world would love to put in front of a firing squad? Change foreign policy? Give them money? How?
Put it this way: if we were to abandon Israel right now, order McDonalds to pull out all branches from foreign countries, and forswore ever doing anything to any other country ever, would terrorists then leave this country alone? And how close to that ridiculous series of actions would we have to go to satisfy them, or at least make them stop bombing us?
What can we do that the terrorists will NOT interpret as a sign of weakness?
I’m interested in your reply.
Your right. I cannot in any way justify killing 6,000 innocent, unarmed civilians. Then again, that wasn’t my argument.
I hate to pass the buck, but I really don’t have the answers to the worlds political situation- nor do I want to be the one making the decisions because I know that I would not be able to make a reasonable one. That is why I am a film student, not a presidential candidate.
I am glad their are others out there that have ways of fighting this evil, because I don’t. I don’t support killing, but I understand that it is going to probably happen anyway. The best I can do is refuse to be involved in any of the mess.
I really don’t see a solution. I do see that taking life is the greatest evil that you can do unto someone (after all, to take a life is to take the only thing that you ever really had in the first place). There is so much evil that I can’t react except to hold on to the one thing that I see as self-evident.
I’m going to join the peacenicks with my own demonstrations and rallies. My campaign is called “Give Oblong a million dollars a year for the rest of my life”. That will make me happier. It will make my life easier. Sure it probably will not happen, but it makes me feel good. And really, that’s all that matters right? As long as I feel like I accomplished something, then the job is done. Who cares about reality.
When I get the million dollars I can sit around all day wishing for more things that will not happen instead of being productive and coming up with real solutions.
Ass, Gas, or Grass forever baby!
Well, my little true patriot friend, while it is true that events that happen close to home, that effect the lives of those around you and could have directly affect you had you been unfortunate enough to be on a plane or in a building hold a little more interest to me, that does not make me oblivious to the myriad battles and civil wars going on throughout the world at any one time.
However, if you want to focus strictly on the Maubere People, how do you feel about, oh, say Portugal and Indonesia? Or is Portugal in the clear since they were over throw/kicked out by coup in '74? You know what, I’m sure your “sources” have much to say on that, too, so nevermind. I wonder, though, what have you done to ease the suffering of the Maubere?
I’d advise you to preview your posts for ironic content in future, Oblong. Did your little rant about hippies make you feel useful?
I gotta go with Michael Ellis on this one.
Sultan, over 1200 posts in less than 4 months? That’s a goodly number. Were they all this devoid of intelligence? Using a rapper as a cite for anything on the SDMB is the anthesis of “fighting ignorance”.
Were they all this “devoid of intelligence”? So I took an unconventional stance, yeah, I thought outside of the box, considering the notion that the US gov’t too could have had a hand in killing thousands of innocent people. Some folks were quick to judge me as an incompassionate traitor.
Face it, your bordering on outright racism there pal. That was the shallowest, most generalized statement I have read all day. I seriously cannot believe you said that. 
I included what MC Boots Riley had said as a means of divulging where in fact I had originally heard about the rumor about the East Timorese. Please notice, if you will, that I included another website with quite a bit more information. Whether it is factual or not I have no way of knowing at this present time.
Seriously, I didn’t bring East Timor into the conversation to stir the coals so to speak. It was to provide another viewpoint… if you lose your shit every time you hear a conflicting viewpoint, simply relaying a rumor and never stating it as a matter-of-fact, then I will pray for your strength in these trying times.
Did I say racism? Oops! Oh yeah, there are whit rappers aren’t there, my mistake.
My thoughts on the issue are summed up more eloquently than I could ever put them by TIME magazine columnist Lance Morrow, excerpted here:
Morrow was only wrong on one point. It didn’t even take two weeks for the moral equivalists out there to stop prioritizing the river of blood in New York, and to start talking about some hypothetical innocent civilian in Afghanistan and some Iraqi’s civil rights first; our nation’s national security second.
If the hijackers were English would you suggest carpet-bombing the British Isles? Hey could you get those dirty micks while your at it?
I’m Irish, shitstain.
Jumpin Jehosphat, Batman! Are you being deliberately dense?
Attempting to use an interview with a rap musician as a cite in a discussion of geopolitical events is ludicrous. So would quoting Madonna in this case, or in quoting either one in a GQ thread on quantum physics.
Racism? :mad: Where do you get that from?
Oh.
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Did I say racism? Oops! Oh yeah, there are whit rappers aren’t there, my mistake.
[/quote]
Backpedal much?
millrug,
My point is, there are very few white rappers. Like three. I still maintain that your comment was shallow and generalized, and to quote you - the anthesis of “fighting ignorance.” In fact you did it twice, dickwad. The first time suggesting that all rappers are idiots and then suggesting that Madonna was a bubble head. Big no-no’s here on the board. Mildly tolerable here au Pit, but how in the would can you contend that you yourself are fighting ignorance when you insist upon making such brash comments?
I’m not going to get into it. You are dead wrong, OK? FYI, it is possible for a black rapper or every other type of musician to say something intelligent.
millrug,
BTW, were you suggesting that Madonna is to quantum physics as Boots Riley is to pseudo hippies?
Sultan if the hijackers had been English, they would have come from some whacked out alternate dimension where the UK hated the US as much as the Taleban does. If I were an American in those circumstances in that freaky alternate dimension (which I remind you does not exist*) then I’d have no problem with retaliation (I’m English BTW).
Nope, Sultan, you are dead wrong, at least in terms of fighting ignorance and how the SDMB works.
If you make a claim like “The U.S. is responsible for 100,000 deaths in East Timor” you have to provide evidence of such. It’s commonly referred to as a “cite”.
“Because MC Boots Riley said so” is neither evidence nor a cite in terms of SDMB parlance.
You have made a charge of racism. Please back it up, or retract it immediately.