I’m amazed at the number of dopers who consider themselves above average in intelligence who act like not signing Kyoto is a terrible thing. Kyoto is a pointless treaty, good for nothing but harming the economy of successful nations. It wouldn’t even limit world carbon emissions as it purports to do. Shit, even Cecil said the same thing. The only relevance Kyoto has is as a club for Democrats to beat Bush over the head with to sway gullible folks who can’t be bothered to educate themselves as to the facts. ANY president, Democrat, Republican or Independent who signs that thing should be immediately impeached.
Also, when exactly did it become the responsibility of the U.S. to do anything at all about AIDS in Africa? As Scylla has noted, we’re doing more than any other country on the face of the Earth as it is, yet somehow we’ve been “slow to respond” and this makes us a “sort of international pariah”. Horseshit.
I can understand some misgivings on their part, when we can spend half a trillion dollars solving a problem that doesn’t exist, while they die for pennies.
You’re totally missing the point. It doesn’t matter if you agree with or disagree about Kyoto or African AIDS. When it comes to being a “pariah,” it only matters what the rest of the world thinks. If a country is disliked, it’s disliked. It doesn’t matter if you think it’s justified. A person or country can be completely pure and righteous in every way and still be a pariah.
Those are small potato issues anyway, of course. Just minor examples of the US giving the finger to the rest of the world. The thing that really makes them hate us (quite justifiably) is Iraq.
It became our responsibility as soon as we knew about it. We have the responsibility to help for no other reason than because we CAN. It’s pretty simple. Maybe you should crack a fucking Bible sometime.
I guess it must be this.
They aren’t seriously going to get up in arms over what they imagine Hillary was literally THINKING during a pause, are they?
Who am I kidding? Of course they will.
A more interesting question for this thread is: Does anyone still take Kerry seriously? He desperately wants to be relevant, but everyone has moved on. It’s all about Obama and Hillary now.
Who’s “they”? You linked to an ABC cite. Are they supposed to be some right-wing shill?
You know, the funny thing here is that you are the one getting all up in arms about a stupid story that Fox ran on a Saturday night talk show. What do you do-- spend all day combing thru the blogs to find something else about FoxNews to get outraged about?
Little Nemo said that Fox was claiming (or implying at least) that HRC had said something 'offensive" in a speech.I didn’t know what it was, so I did a google news search and came up with that as a possibility. The “they” I was referring to was FOX, since that’s who Little Nemo claimed had teased a story that HRC had said something objectionable. I was assuming that FOX was up in arms about something and the ABC story was just the thing I found that thought they must be getting upset about.
True, but the actual point of the thread isn’t who actually is to blame. The point is that Kerry said that because of certain things the US is viewed very negatively globally and he’s getting attacked for it.
I’m from a country that traditionally is very pro US. While there is little animosity towards individuals I’ve never in my 35 years seen such scorn poured on your country and its political decisions than I’ve seen over the last few years. I spent 3 months in Holland last year and saw the same thing. I work in an international company. The current US admin and by extension the people that voted for them and support them are laughed at by all nationalities I’ve talked to. When the conversations turn serious it gets even worse.
This isn’t just normal slagging. The type that all nationalities get up to about others. I wouldn’t necessarily go as far as to say pariah but to a certain degree the US has become a laughing stock and no amount of tu quoque arguments are going to change that.
Sure, and you know what? I DON’T GIVE A FUCK. Seriously, I don’t. I just don’t care. They can march against the U.S. in Munich, protest in Paris, blow themselves up in Baghdad and riot in Riyadh, and I don’t care even the teensiest, tiniest bit. This world is a far, far better place because of the presence of the United States, which is why so many people needing a specter to frighten people with for their own ends, both foreign and domestic, blame the U.S. for everything from tsunamis to typhoons, from failed crops to shattered economies. Then, as soon as anything bad happens, they are lining up with their hands out demanding that we give them money, time and help. The United States should pursue the foreign policy that is in the best interest of the United States, and not give 2 hoots and a holler about what anyone “thinks”.
I might take you a little more seriously if you didn’t spend every other post railing about the eeeeeeevils of religion. As it is I just laughed and rolled my eyes. The fact is, dear Dio, we don’t owe them Jack nor Shit. We don’t have the responsibility to do anything. We chose to offer aid, because we feel that it’s the right thing to do and because that’s how we believe we should react to tragedies. Non-US Citizens are not entitled to squat.
In my crazier moments I sometimes think that we should just pull the plug on the whole thing. You want us out of the ME? Fine, we’re gone. But we go from everywhere. All troops returned from foreign lands to the US. All aid and payments cut to zero. Contract with Canada to supply our domestic oil needs, get into nukes in a big way for domestic power generation and bring our industry home. Japan would wobble and collapse without our market for cars, and China would follow soon after when we stopped buying rubber novelty vomit and plastic dog toys. Russia and most of Eastern Europe will have trouble just feeding their populations without US grain, North and South Korea can start the whole damn mess all over again, with Seoul doing it’s surface of the sun imitation shortly thereafter. India’s in trouble if we aren’t exporting our service sector jobs there, and people like Red Fury and Svetaspol can crack open a beer and cheer the inevitable attempt at genocide in Israel. I wouldn’t get to complacent if I were Red Fury though, because without US troops and with increasing unrest worldwide, Europe is going to feel compelled to rearm to at least some degree, and I’m not sure their strained cradle to grave socialist systems can handle it. Africa would become hell on earth and South America merely heck on earth. Would we get hurt too? Absolutely! Badly! You can’t pull the beating heart out of an organism with harming both of them, perhaps fatally. But I have more confidence in our ability to recover and meet our needs domestically than I do of the rest of the world’s. Like it or not, the United States is the Atlas upon whose shoulders the whole world rests. Want to call us a pariah? That’s fine. Really, it is, because we’re not going to stop doing what we do for the rest of the world. But before you get too carried away attempting to tie down the giant with the best of Liliputian technology, take a long hard look at what it would really mean if the US took it’s ball and went home. It’s not a pretty picture.
**Dio **asked me if I thought any of what Kerry said was true. I answered, and that was part of the answer.
Well, Weird, don’t you feel better now? Anybody else in the group have something they want to share?
Spoken like a true American. But whether you care that America is a pariah is irrelevant to whether Kerry was right are wrong.
I’ve never actually done that, but even if I had (which I haven’t) that doesn’t relieve you of your own moral (ostensibly Christian, IIRC) responsibilities. It really shouldn’t have to be explained to you why doint the right thing is right.
[quote]
The fact is, dear Dio, we don’t owe them Jack nor Shit.[/quopte]
“Owe’s” got nothing to do with it.
Except for the moral responsibility.
“Non-US citizens are not entitled to squat?” What kind of gibbering, fascist psychobabble is that? Obviously you have no concept of moral responsibility. I can’t help you with that.
Someone has been reading too many Survivalist magazines…
For the record, I did not write what you responded to and what you attributed to me.
I have fixed the attribution for the second quote in #37.
Thanks! 
You know, this has to be one of the best parodies I’ve ever read on here…
…it was a parody, wasn’t it…?
Peer pressure.
:dubious:
Last time, you said your mother made you do it.