Here’s a list of reasons from various pundits about why the Democrats got whipped. Agree / Disagree?

Politics & Elections
1

Here’s a list of reasons from various pundits about why the Democrats got whipped.

No specific ranking, just typing as they come to mind based on the articles and opinion pieces I have read over the past several weeks. Are these valid? Do you have any to add?
1: FBI Director Comey’s last minute antics – Explanation most favored buy HRC, Pelosi and the campaign staff

2: Male voter sexism – Most American men will not vote for a woman period

3: Internalized misogyny by white female voters - 53% voted for Trump -

4: Lack of effort/candidate visits to turn out vote in critical rust belt swing states by HRC campaign

5: Complacency by HRC campaign based on inaccurate poll projections

6: HRC’s lack of charisma and/or not likeable or relatable enough

7: HRC’s overall arrogance/entitlement attitude

8: HRC’s political baggage and past statements

9: Too many Democratic black, Hispanic and young voters stayed home and did not vote

10: Smug, self satisfied attitude by the left in general that they were on the right side of history and held the moral upper hand in their positions caused disaffected Democratic voters with traditional views to move to Trump.

11: Overarching history of cultural/political cycles. People just want change after 8 years of Democrats.

12: Identity politics. Democrats and liberal institutions in general, especially Colleges and Universities, have spent so much effort encouraging identity politics among various groups that white Americans finally became an identity group themselves and turned out at the polls to give Trump the margin he needed. “Live by identity politics, die by identity politics”.

13: Obamacare structural and actuarial problems were causing health insurance costs to skyrocket for various working class/middle class groups, especially in swing states, and they were desperate to find some way to control or deal with these. Trump was an anti-Obamacare vote for these voters. – Note this is my personal hot button. I voted for Hillary but if I had voted for Trump this would have been why.

14: Inaccurate polling led to Democratic and media echo chamber where liberal never realized what was actually happening on the ground until election night.

15: Embarrassed white voters lied like rugs when polled about whether they would vote for Trump.

2

3 very effective decades of pretending to care about Whitewater, Vince Foster, email servers and Benghazi made Clinton a uniquely terrible candidate.

3

  1. It was not the last-minute stuff. It was back in July, when Comey spent half an hour listing all of the laws she broke, then played semantic games to find a pretext to avoid recommending prosecution. If you or I had treated classified documents the way Clinton did, Comey would have sent us to prison.

  2. Mary Fallin, Nikki Haley, and Susana Martinez would disagree.

  3. If liberals don’t want conservatives to stereotype people, they ought not do it themselves.

  4. Not lack of effort. They misidentified which states were solid blue, and which had the potential to flip.

5, 6, 7, 8. Did not help.

  1. The Obama Coalition turned out to be loyal more to the person, than to the party.

  2. I agree wholeheartedly.

  3. Maybe.

  4. Maybe, but I think it was less about race, and more about urban/rural differences.

  5. I agree wholeheartedly.

  6. Did not help.

  7. Many non-liberals did not trust the pollsters, and did not answer the phone when the pollsters called.

4

Pretty good list there.

You missed the “deplorable/irredeemable” whoopsie however.

Its one thing to call a person’s candidate something. Or anything or everything for that matter. People are used to that in elections. They don’t take it particularly seriously or personally.

It’s a whole nuther thing to call HALF of the candidates supporters names. (and leaving them wondering if they are in that half).

And it wasn’t just a name calling. Deplorable/irredeemable may not sounda bad as other high power name calling like muther fucker, bastard, or your pick other such naval language. But intellectually, deplorable/irredeemable says some pretty serious shit about your fundamental value as a human being.

I know some Trump folks / more conservative types. Trust me, THAT comment had em pissed as hell. AT HILLARY. AND MOTIVATED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

It would not surprise me that a decent fraction of Trump voters that voted were just supporters till Hillary pulled that one, at which point they became voters determined to vote.

Given how narrow Trump’s margins were in most/all? the important swing states it would not surprise me that the deplorables thing alone might have been enough to make the difference right there.

Oh, and another thing about your list. The large majority of of those things are Hillary’s/the campain’s fault. Stuff they shouldn’t have done in the first place, or not listening to people who know their shit, or stuff handled poorly, or a combination of the previous.

It was Hillary’s to loose and she did it to herself.

5

didn’t help

not this, this is just seeking a way to lay the blame on others

not this, same as above plus just sounds stupid

this one is part of it

this is also part of it

this is part of it

this is part of it and closely related, I think to 6

very much a part of it.

I don’t know enough to say on this one

Don’t know enough to say about the disaffected democratic voters (hadn’t heard that before now), but the part about the attitude of the left most certainly played a large part.

could be

for a lot of people this very much played a part.

yes, this was a part of it

this one smacks of playing the blame game, but is plausible enough to get a maybe.

yes this one played a part but the embarrassed part of the statement weakens it and reduces its role.

6

I like the one from last night’s SNL (paraphrased):

Tinder now offers 27 different gender identity options, otherwise known as-- why the Democrats lost the election.

7

If the exit polls are right, the entire loss might owe to black men not coming out for Hillary the way they did for Obama. It looks like the 13% of black men that went for Trump made the difference. I’m making some assumptions here, of course, but the difference should be enough to cover 120,000 votes in PA, MI, and WI. Black mens’ votes may have made a difference in OH and NC too.

8

Black men were 5% of the electorate, and 13% supported Trump, 80% Clinton (7% didn’t say or voted for someone else).

In 2012 black men were also 5% of the electorate, 87% supported Obama, and it implies on CNN that 13% supported Romney.

I really don’t know what % shifted from 2012 to 2016. But that drop from 87% down to 80% hurt her, that is a 0.35% shift away from the democrat.

In Michigan it may have made the difference, but not PA or WI, or NH.

9

Here’s my top 15 reasons:

  1. Voters are dumb.

  2. Voters are dumb.

  3. Voters are dumb.

  4. Voters are dumb.

  5. Voters are dumb.

  6. Voters are dumb.

  7. Voters are dumb.

  8. Voters are dumb.

  9. Voters are dumb.

  10. Voters are dumb.

  11. Voters are dumb.

  12. Voters are dumb.

  13. Voters are dumb.

  14. Trump promised free pizza.

  15. Voters are dumb.

10

The 13% for Romney sounds wrong. IIRC, black male support for Obama was well over 90%

There were enough black male voters in the greater Philadelphia area to push Hillary over the top. Many didn’t show, and an unprecedented number went Republican

11

But Trump was also uniquely terrible being such a big-mouthed outsider who put his foot in his mouth so often he should have suffered from Athlete’s Tongue. What everyone miss-guessed was just how many people of all races and backgrounds were tired on the same-old-same-old candidates and would either stay home, vote outsider, or vote for someone with no chance of winning.

12

It was probably one factor in her defeat.

However, Obama did pretty much the same thing back in 2008, when he spoke to wealthy Californians and made the following statement about people living in economically depressed areas of Pennsylvania:

“They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

This was regarded as a rookie political mistake, and seized on by none other than Hillary Clinton.

“I was taken aback by the demeaning remarks Senator Obama made about people in small-town America,” she said…“His remarks are elitist and out of touch.”

Oh, the irony. :slight_smile:

Obama got in less trouble for his remarks than Clinton did for hers, because he was mostly perceived as a decent person.

13

Pizza???

14

I would add in all the Bernie Sanders supporters who felt the DNC swindled them.

15

How about her positions on gun control and other issues were flatly rejected by voters living in “flyover country”?

16

1: FBI Director Comey’s last minute antics – Explanation most favored buy HRC, Pelosi and the campaign staff

Didn’t help-- that said, I feel like the campaign shouldn’t have been close enough for this to be the deal-breaker

2: Male voter sexism – Most American men will not vote for a woman period

doubtful-- especially in light of Clinton’s popular vote win. (Also, the fact that the Republicans won so many House and Senate races, and Governor’s races counts against it in my book)

3: Internalized misogyny by white female voters - 53% voted for Trump -

Not buying it–I think most of those voters were voting based on the economy or on Supreme Court nominees, not on sex. Not that internalized misogyny couldn’t be a factor, just that I don’t think it was the big one.

4: Lack of effort/candidate visits to turn out vote in critical rust belt swing states by HRC campaign

Didn’t help. Given how close some of those critical states ended up being, . . . but hindsight’s 20/20.

5: Complacency by HRC campaign based on inaccurate poll projections

Didn’t help

6: HRC’s lack of charisma and/or not likeable or relatable enough

didn’t help

7: HRC’s overall arrogance/entitlement attitude

Doubtful

8: HRC’s political baggage and past statements

Didn’t help. (That said, it’s not like Trump didn’t have baggage, it was just a different sort).

9: Too many Democratic black, Hispanic and young voters stayed home and did not vote

Didn’t help

10: Smug, self satisfied attitude by the left in general that they were on the right side of history and held the moral upper hand in their positions caused disaffected Democratic voters with traditional views to move to Trump.

not convinced

11: Overarching history of cultural/political cycles. People just want change after 8 years of Democrats.

Big issue. Not neccessarily the biggest, but certainly a major challenge, and probably a big factor in why the polls tightened so much so late.

12: Identity politics. Democrats and liberal institutions in general, especially Colleges and Universities, have spent so much effort encouraging identity politics among various groups that white Americans finally became an identity group themselves and turned out at the polls to give Trump the margin he needed. “Live by identity politics, die by identity politics”.

A concern. As a woman, and a person who was proud to vote for Clinton (knowing full well my state was going against her, though my county may have gone for her), I hated it when Clinton said things like “Isn’t it about time we had a woman president?”

13: Obamacare structural and actuarial problems were causing health insurance costs to skyrocket for various working class/middle class groups, especially in swing states, and they were desperate to find some way to control or deal with these. Trump was an anti-Obamacare vote for these voters. – Note this is my personal hot button. I voted for Hillary but if I had voted for Trump this would have been why.

Maybe

14: Inaccurate polling led to Democratic and media echo chamber where liberal never realized what was actually happening on the ground until election night.

Iffy

15: Embarrassed white voters lied like rugs when polled about whether they would vote for Trump.

Questionable

17

The Democrats have their greatest strength in the major cities.
Less so in s,mall towns & rural areas.
Voting Trump was a away to get attention to those areas.

18

1: FBI Director Comey’s last minute antics – Explanation most favored buy HRC, Pelosi and the campaign staff

A significant effect.
**2: Male voter sexism – Most American men will not vote for a woman period **

**3: Internalized misogyny by white female voters - 53% voted for Trump - **

Yes to both.
4: Lack of effort/candidate visits to turn out vote in critical rust belt swing states by HRC campaign

I doubt such a vote existed.
**5: Complacency by HRC campaign based on inaccurate poll projections

6: HRC’s lack of charisma and/or not likeable or relatable enough **

Probably. Although the last is both a condemnation of the voters and a result of 2&3; her “no charisma” facade is one she was driven into by the open contempt for women openly showing emotions.
**7: HRC’s overall arrogance/entitlement attitude **

Again 2&3; that’s mostly just “How DARE a woman act like she’s allowed to be President! She should stay at home and act as her husband’s servant.” Hatred for women with ambition or minds of their own is how the whole crusade against her started after all.
8: HRC’s political baggage and past statements

No, decades of lies by the Republicans.
9: Too many Democratic black, Hispanic and young voters stayed home and did not vote

True.
**10: Smug, self satisfied attitude by the left in general that they were on the right side of history and held the moral upper hand in their positions caused disaffected Democratic voters with traditional views to move to Trump. **

False; if they hated smugness or self righteousness they wouldn’t have anything to do with Trump or the Republicans.
**11: Overarching history of cultural/political cycles. People just want change after 8 years of Democrats. **

Stupid if so since we haven’t had 8 years of Democrats.
12: Identity politics. Democrats and liberal institutions in general, especially Colleges and Universities, have spent so much effort encouraging identity politics among various groups that white Americans finally became an identity group themselves and turned out at the polls to give Trump the margin he needed. “Live by identity politics, die by identity politics”.

That’s an elaborate way of saying “white racism” without using the words and trying to blame it on their victims.
**13: Obamacare structural and actuarial problems were causing health insurance costs to skyrocket for various working class/middle class groups, especially in swing states, and they were desperate to find some way to control or deal with these. Trump was an anti-Obamacare vote for these voters. – Note this is my personal hot button. I voted for Hillary but if I had voted for Trump this would have been why. **

True, but largely created by the Republicans. Ruining a government program then demanding it be cut because it doesn’t work is standard for them.
**14: Inaccurate polling led to Democratic and media echo chamber where liberal never realized what was actually happening on the ground until election night.

15: Embarrassed white voters lied like rugs when polled about whether they would vote for Trump.**

Probably true.

19

Another big factor: Voters were itching for big-time upheaval, change to the status quo. Hillary was the establishment candidate, Trump was anti-establishment, and that’s a big reason why Trump won.

And also as others mentioned, the Rust Belt felt neglected, and felt Trump was heeding them.

20

Not sure which party affiliation you think Obama is of, unless you’re saying Obama wasn’t a *true *Democrat, which would then get us into No True Scotsman.