Here we go again—shitty moderation

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1

Scene of the latest injustice.

[QUOTE=Marley23]

Mod Note

[QUOTE=magellan01 (to tomndebb)]

Feel free to get Marley23 to sign on to the apology, in the interest of saving the hamsters the work of an extra post.
[/QUOTE]

If you want to discuss this further take it to ATMB instead of hijacking this thread.
[/QUOTE]

You got it. Let’s start with the other part of that very post that I cited above:

[QUOTE=Marley23]

[QUOTE=magellan01 (to tomndebb)]

Marley’s post was #33, and name calling was not the issue. So, you’re assessment above is incorrect.
[/QUOTE]

His assessment is correct. Yours is legalistic and a bit ridiculous: I said to stop making snide personal remarks, and “weasel” definitely counts.
[/QUOTE]

Now, from your comment here one would expect to go back and find a post where you said “stop making personal remarks”. But no such post exists. The moderation you offered was in Post 33, but there is no language like that. I’m going to cite it, don’t worry. But first, let’s lay out what the problems in the thread were—real or imagined. There were two.

One was the language of “wake the fuck up”. The other was name calling, i.e., weasel. Actually capitalization was also cited, so I’ll include “WEASEL”.

Now we go to the first instance of “wake the fuck up”. It appeared in my Post 15, where I summed up my opinions on immigration. It was directed to no one poster, nor did id address a particular point that was made. It was an opinion where I listed several things I think the government should do to curb illegal immigration. Here it is with enough to remind you of the context:

[QUOTE=magellan01]
Any plan that grants amnesty or amnesty light (a “path to citizenship”) makes a mockery of our laws and turns those people with the good graces to not sneak in and wait in line suckers.

We need reform, yes. And we need to make it much easier for people to immigrate here legally. But the numbers we let in should serve us…

Of course, this nonsense of allowing someone to sneak in and plop out a bay on American soil and have that baby be a citizen (and a ticket to citizenship for the parents) should stop immediately. We are saps. Time to wake the fuck up.
[/QUOTE]

So there are the last six words. Directed at no one and well within the forum rules.

Then, in Post 30 Eva Luna takes umbrage at what I wrote and uses those same words responding to me directly:

[QUOTE= Eva Luna]

[QUOTE=magellan01]

Of course, this nonsense of allowing someone to sneak in and plop out a bay on American soil and have that baby be a citizen (and a ticket to citizenship for the parents) should stop immediately. We are saps. Time to wake the fuck up.
[/QUOTE]

Time to “wake the fuck up” that a U.S. citizen child cannot petition for a green card for his/her parents until he/she turns 21. Which is a rather long-term plan, to say the very least, especially given that parents of U.S. citizens are still subject to significant bars to immigrating legally if they have been unlawfully present in the U.S., even after the immediate relative petition is approved.
[/QUOTE]

She quotes me, directed her response to me, then uses that language. Not a big deal, really, but since I hadn’t even addressed her in the thread, I was taken aback that she came after me as she did. So I gave it right back to her:

[QUOTE=magellan01]
Sorry, Toots, but I knew that the kid had to be 21. That’s probably why I didn’t say otherwise. So, why don’t you wake the fuck up and pay attention to the words on the screen, ignoring the ones that aren’t there.
[/QUOTE]

Amazingly, she then replies:

[QUOTE=Eva Luna]
Knock off the swearing, would ya? And my name isn’t “toots,” as you well know. And the truth remains that having a baby in the U.S. isn’t a one-way ticket to citizenship, as you well know. So knock off the lies of omission; all they do is obfuscate the debate.

If you debate respectfully, then so will I.
[/QUOTE]

Huh? I was not debating her, nor any point she had made. I put my opinions forth in Post 15. I did use the phrase “Time to wake the fuck up” for emphasis, but it was directed at no one in the thread, and was within the rules of the forum. SHE then and throws those words directly at me, then comes back and tells ME to “knock of the swearing”. :confused:

This is where you come in, Marley23, offering the very next postin the exchange. Post 33:

[QUOTE=Marley23]
This isn’t called-for, magellan01. Dial it back.
[/QUOTE]

When I see this, I’m again taken aback. I wasn’t so concerned with the gentle modding, but with the fact that it was directed at me and only me, when I was not the one that started it. So, in Post 62 I say:

[QUOTE=magellan01]
How about you look and see what transpired? In Post 15 I used the phrase “Time to wake the fuck up” as part os a general rant, directed to no one. Eve took the quote and used in responding to me specifically. I thought her tone was uncalled for (directed at me) and sent it right back to her. And then you tell ME to dial it back? Fine. Now tell HER to dial it back.
[/QUOTE]

I was hoping that you might have come back and something along the lines, "Yes, that was an oversight. Eva Luna, that admonishment goes for you to, blah, blah…

But that never came, so I was left to sort it out without you. During the subsequent exchanges, Eva Luna accused me of “weaseling”. I showed her that I wasn’t and that SHE was the one weaseling, and (amazingly) calling her a WEASEL in the process. :eek:

Now we move on to tomndebb. He enters the scene with Post 81:

[QUOTE=tomndebb]
You are only getting one Warning, but your repeated hurling of the word “weasel” (capitalized and all) in multiple posts is way out of line.

You are Warned to dial it back a lot.

[ /Moderating ]
[/QUOTE]

After he Warns me (as if he’s doing me a favor) for calling her a weasel, he gently admonishes the darling Eva Luna—who first accused me of weaseling—sans Warning:

[QUOTE=tomndebb]
You also need to dial it back.

Stick to the discussion and leave the anger for the Pit.

[ /Moderating ]
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=magellan01]
Have you guys lost your friggin minds? I use a phrase in Post 15, just to add emphasis—not addressed to anyone—and well within forum rules. EvaLuna then comes and uses that very language to address me personally. I do the same to her and Marley admonishes ME and not her!?!?!?

SHE then accuses ME of weaseling. I respond pointing out that she is the one doing the weaseling, and call her (get ready for it…) a WEASEL. Then YOU come and warn ME!!! Citing capitalization no less.

WHAT THE FUCK? Do you not see a little problem with unfairness, here?
[/QUOTE]

tomndebb responds in Post 111:

I then correct what I think he got wrong, and why what he (and Marley23) did was unfair:

[QUOTE=magellan01]
Wrong. She is the one who directed the language at me (your lame handwaving aside). Her subsequent posts support my take on this , not yours. I then returned the favor and used the same language in responding to her. She then accused me of weaseling. I then showed that SHE was the one weaseling, which would make her a weasel.

And your claim that I continued name calling after I was told to stop in plainly incorrect. Please show where I was told to stop with name calling prior to your post. The first time I called her a name, “Weasel” was Post 76—in response to Post 75, when she accused me of it. Marley’s post was #33, and name calling was not the issue. So, you’re assessment above is incorrect.

The poor judgement in this is textbook mod unfairness. Maybe it started out inadvertent, maybe it didn’t. I don’t really care. But now that I’ve explained it, I’ll wait for you to apologize and retract the Warning. Or, issue a Warning to her, as well. Feel free to get Marley23 to sign on to the apology, in the interest of saving the hamsters the work of an extra post.
[/QUOTE]

And that brings us full circle to where we are now. Most of the explanation is provided ion the cites along the way, which leaves us with just your last comment:

We’ve just seen that the admonishment you offered was just, “This isn’t called-for, magellan01. Dial it back.” That does not jive with what you now say you said. So your recollection of your own post is way off or you were lying. I think, hope, it was merely the former. So I look forward to your apology on the front, too.

The moderation of this board is not fair. Simple as that. I could have with this incident just wash over me, but when combined with others, it gets fucking old. Here, when someone else started it, I’m the only one who gets warned. Another time, via PMs with tomndebb, again, I was the one heatedly responding to another poster’s attacks and when that got ratcheted up, we both got warned. In this latest case, I wouldn’t have said boo if we both had been admonished. but we weren’t. And then I was the only one Warned. And in both instances in this latest thread. I was responding to being attacked by another poster.

So is it possible that you or tomndebb will admit to doing something wrong. History says that’s as likely as my cat making a souffle this afternoon. And I don’t have a cat.

But how about the administration, don’t they give a shit about these boards? And does it escape them that in these things it almost always seems to be the conservative who gets the short end of the stick?

2

We are now officially a board of butt-hurt whiners.

3

It’s the sweary, jerky types that get the short end of any stick. Just my opinion, of course.

4

Jesus Christ, man.

To use a timely metaphor---- this one isn’t a mechanical problem with moderation; this is you stomping the accelerator to the mat.

5

I call for a coup de etat!

6

I don’t get it. It’s pretty easy to be on the board and never get mod warnings. Just say what you want without trying to insult the other person, without profanity, and making your point in a more or less polite but straightforward manner. I’ll never grok why people can’t leave the personal out of debates. Would you be this rude to someone you were debating with in real life?

7

Post 15 was just that, with the addition of the phrase “time to wake the fuck up”. Neither that line nor the post in general was directed at any poster.

I assume you’re talking to Eva Luna here, as she is the one who came after me.

I enjoy debate and engage in it all the time. It rarely if ever gets heated, as I’m not attacked. If I am, I return the favor. Seems to work quite well.

8

NOT THE WEASELS AGAIN!

9

And we’re off to a flying start!

Rather than going over all the ins and outs, let me address the question this way: when I said “this isn’t called-for, dial it back,” what did you think I meant? Here is your post and mine:

“Wake the fuck up” isn’t against the rules, as you yourself pointed out. I was responding to the way you addressed Eva Luna - “Sorry, Toots” and “pay attention to the words on the screen” - because I figured the conversation was going to turn personal from there and I was trying to stave it off. Her previous post did address a factual issue, and your response was directed entirely at her. I could have given her a note as well. Maybe I should have and I’ll keep that in mind. But I don’t give people mod notes just for general cursing and I’m not going to start doing that.

So now maybe you get what the problem is: I don’t care if somebody says fuck in GD or anyplace else. I did respond to your comments to Eva Luna. When she responded to your post, of course, you made the brilliant move of adopting the same tone I’d asked you to stop. F’rinstance you called her toots again, and I suspect you did that to annoy her. Do you really call people that in your day to day life? Because I hear that women don’t like that one anymore. Anyhow, you kept that up for a couple of posts and got a warning. She responded more or less in kind and eventually got a mod note, which by that point she’d earned.

10

I only saw page one but based on what she said, I don’t think she “came after you.” She disagreed with you but it didn’t seem out of line. I just didn’t see any attack and I didn’t see the need for profanity on your part.

11

Have you considered rethinking this part?

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It was good enough for Satan, it’s good enough for me.

(sung to “Old Time Religion”)

13

Just for the sake of, well, whatever.

I just wanted to chime in and say that “This is uncalled for, John Doe. Dial it back” is exactly the kind of language moderators should be using for most intents and purposes across the board. It is polite and to the point.

So I am having a hard time feeling sympathy for the OP. Even if there was any injustice (I haven’t bothered to dissect that thread), the mod intervention was just a mod note in appropriate language and it is the OP who is coming down as shrill and over the top. ATMBing Marley might be the fashionable thing to do but at least wait to have a reason to. And when you do, try to do it in a way that elicits some sympathy.

14

Hi Magellan01,

Your first use of “time to wake the fuck up” was benign and impersonal.

Eva Luna’s response seemed personal, but could legitimately be interpreted as impersonal.

Your post #31, “why don’t you wake the fuck up” was unambiguously a personal attack.

After that the moanings, hair-splitting, and sporadic moderator interventions weren’t worth following. Your belligerence stood out prominently though.

You didn’t come off well there, and aren’t coming off well here.

15

This part doesn’t seem to have been addressed -

As to the OP, listen to Marley23 - the “wake the fuck up” part is not the bad part. “Toots” and “weasel” are.

Regards,
Shodan

16

Although I cannot speak for Eva Luna’s intentions and realizing that this is not what is being discussed here, I just have to say that recycling a person’s language/expression in your response is a technique I really like to use and read from others. I have been modded for using it as it has been misinterpreted. User beware.

17

The ‘lies of omission’ comment deserved a note. I just didn’t see that.

18

What I thought you were objecting to was my personal (second use) of “wake the fuck up”. I could see that. and that’s why, as I said, I would have been fine if you had admonished both of us. Even though I felt that she attacked first. I had no idea that “toots” qualified as an insult. To me, it’s much like the wry “pal”, “missy”, or “son”. Somewhat snide, yes, but certainly not uncommon fodder in GD. I had no idea “toots” would be construed as an “insult”.

Not exactly right. I was correcting her thinking that I didn’t know the law regarding age. I did so with, shall we say, flavor. I had dialed it up, but that was in response to her coming after me, personally, with the same phrase.

Hallelujah!. Thank you for saying that. In the grand scheme of things, this issue, isolated, is small potatoes. But stuff like this happens quite often. And every time there’s a questionable call it seems to favor the same side. If you, and other mods, would just keep that in mind, I think it would help.

As I mentioned. I did not connect your admonition to that; I thought it was the more personal “wake the fuck up”, which I did NOT repeat. I’m still surprised top hear that “toots” is more of a problem than a direct and personal, “wake the fuck up”.

I’d just point out that if she was admonished when I was, nothing that followed would have transpired. But it did. And then I see tomndebb mete out the same unfairness: Warning me while merely admonishing her.

But thank you for your response. Now I can sit back and wait for tomndebb to come by and pronate himself as he apologizes for yet another of his injustices.

19

Umm, the thread is still open…

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Isn’t the whole point of the “no personal attacks” rule to prevent a few overbearing boors from closing down discussion by driving away everyone else with their attitude?

Doesn’t this purpose seem defeated when modes take the rule to cover so much behavior that nearly every application ends up being controverted here. And discussion is closed down because people get sick of the modes and move on to other boards,

The “no personal attack” does not exist for its own sake. Nor, I hasten to add, do moderators. Rather, their raison d’etre is to facilitate—dare to dream, to promote!—discussion on the boards. And I do not mean ATMB discussion.