Heroes 5/21/07 - "How to Stop an Exploding Man" (SPOILERS)

[Lightray]

@Long Time Lurker

She’s had a lot of time to think about this. They planned it a few days ago, and she almost pulled the trigger when Peter first met Ted (with much less teen angst) before he managed to recover.

I don’t buy that she almost pulled the trigger before. She reluctantly took the pistol out of her purse, at Peter’s urging, but Peter said “oops, nevermind” before she had to face the horror of really shooting her uncle.

And that’s what it was, to her – a horror. It was a horrible burden to put on a 15-year old, and everybody (Noah, Peter, Nathan, Claire) knew that. Really, the better option would’ve been for Peter to have shot himself, or borrowed Hiro’s nagamaki and eaten it, but I’m not really sure that he could’ve mustered the guts to do that.

In the end, only Noah could’ve been trusted to do the deed. Even Nathan – one of the more strong-willed characters on the show – chose to die with Peter rather than to live having killed his brother. It’s a bit strange to complain that not-quite-adult Claire didn’t accomplish something that none of the adults could bring themselves to do, either.

@D_Odds

It’s similar to where I talked about Niki upthread. I thought their actions were consistent with the characters they’ve built all season. People expecting them to figuratively throw on some spandex and save the day … wanted to see typical comic book archetypes, and that is not who these characters were…except Hiro.

Although I’ve complained about Niki, it wasn’t about that. Spandex would have, indeed, been dumb. If just for how stupid it looks in real life (something the X-Men movies got right, IMO).

My complaint about Niki was that her entire story arc was about taking control of her life again, after having given up control to her father’s abuse, to Jessica, to Linderman, to DL, and basically to everybody but herself. She finally took charge of her life and started acting on her own in this episode – as evidenced by her being able to access her super-strength now.

And then, in the final scene, she takes one decisive action – and then meekly listens to Peter (whom she doesn’t know from Adam) to go back and sit on the sidelines like an obedient little girl. All that long, rather dull story arc, and she’s back to being the girl who does what other people want her to do, not the woman who does what is right.

It would’ve made no difference in the narrative of this episode had she clobbered Sylar, and then been TK’d by him across the plaza like he’d been doing to everybody else (even when stabbed through the chest by Hiro). Yet, that would not have been completely contrary to the character development that Niki had been given.

[Long_Time_Lurker]

@Lightray

I don’t buy that she almost pulled the trigger before. She reluctantly took the pistol out of her purse, at Peter’s urging, but Peter said “oops, nevermind” before she had to face the horror of really shooting her uncle.

And that’s what it was, to her – a horror. It was a horrible burden to put on a 15-year old, and everybody (Noah, Peter, Nathan, Claire) knew that. Really, the better option would’ve been for Peter to have shot himself, or borrowed Hiro’s nagamaki and eaten it, but I’m not really sure that he could’ve mustered the guts to do that.

I’m not trying to be obtuse, but what’s the big deal about shooting him, stabbing him, “killing” him. He grows back! Hell, even though he blew up, I’d be surprised if we don’t see him again. This isn’t a difficult decision, it’s a no brainer. And if Claire was too immature to figure that out, someone else on the crack team should have put the pieces together for her. It’s almost as if they wrote this ending before they gave Peter his regenerative powers and just left it as is. If there’s some reason to believe that he would NOT regenerate, then give that piece of information to the audience so we don’t have to fan wank it.

[Lightray]

@Long Time Lurker

If there’s some reason to believe that he would NOT regenerate, then give that piece of information to the audience so we don’t have to fan wank it.

If the audience is fan-wanking, why do you think that the characters wouldn’t be. Peter doesn’t really know how his power works. Claire certainly doesn’t. He was apparently unable to use Nathan’s power to fly away while he was overloading on Ted’s power. So how can anyone be sure that he’d’ve been able to use Claire’s power while overloading on Ted’s power?

What we know is this: Claire, Nathan, Noah, and everybody else seemed to think it was a pretty grave thing to contemplate shooting Peter while he’s about to blow up.

[Gundam_Cricket]

@Long Time Lurker

I’m not trying to be obtuse, but what’s the big deal about shooting him, stabbing him, “killing” him. He grows back! Hell, even though he blew up, I’d be surprised if we don’t see him again. This isn’t a difficult decision, it’s a no brainer. And if Claire was too immature to figure that out, someone else on the crack team should have put the pieces together for her. It’s almost as if they wrote this ending before they gave Peter his regenerative powers and just left it as is. If there’s some reason to believe that he would NOT regenerate, then give that piece of information to the audience so we don’t have to fan wank it.

It was discussed earlier in the thread; Ted’s power doesn’t damage himself, just everything around him. While Peter is channeling Ted’s power, he’d be immune to its effects, thus no need for regeneration after he explodes.

Well, he might have to regenerate once he lands, but not because of the actual explosion.

[Long_Time_Lurker]

@Lightray

What we know is this: Claire, Nathan, Noah, and everybody else seemed to think it was a pretty grave thing to contemplate shooting Peter while he’s about to blow up.

I don’t disagree with this at all. I just fail to see the justification. In a prior episode both Claire and Noah mentally convinced Telepa-cop (sorry, forgot his name) to shoot Claire to difuse the situation with Ted in the Bennet home. Neither Claire nor Noah had any hesitation or fear that Claire would be killed. Given that, and the fact that Claire has seen Peter die and come back twice now, I have a very hard time finding the concern convincing. I’d feel about as bad shooting Peter as I would pulling the tail off a lizard (i.e. sorry about the discomfort, Peter, but you’ll be ok).

[crazyjoe]

@D_Odds

(not that I would mind seeing Niki in spandex - Claire is too young and I’d feel dirty about that)

Psst…Hayden Panettierre was in Ice Princess with Michelle Trachtenberg. Just FYI. Ice Skating outfits tend to be made of a spandex-like material

[D_Odds]

crazyjoe, they are both too young (even though of legal age) for me to watch and feel comfortable about it. Maybe in another decade or two, I’ll get over my hang-up and start looking for 20 y.o. trophies. Someone will need to feed me my Cream of Wheat, and they might as well be young and pretty.

[Loach]

Just got to watch the episode so I won’t go back and try to comment on things from 5 pages back. I’m happy to say that I was right about New York being intact at the end of the season despite all the arguments against me (and others). The whole show would have been meaningless without this ending.

For those of you who need a fix before next season, here is a website for you. It is supposed to bridge the gap between seasons or at least explore some of the themes. Not much on the site yet but I expect more to come. I have no idea what Sulu is saying in the video clip.

[D_Odds]

@Lightray

And then, in the final scene, she takes one decisive action – and then meekly listens to Peter (whom she doesn’t know from Adam) to go back and sit on the sidelines like an obedient little girl. All that long, rather dull story arc, and she’s back to being the girl who does what other people want her to do, not the woman who does what is right.

We’ll have to agree-to-disagree. I feel fighting Sylar would have been more out of character (hell, other than the fact that it was nicely dramatic, I don’t think she should have involved herself at all). If I read you correctly, you feel that fighting Sylar, or at least continuing to fight Sylar, was the correct conclusion to her story arc.

[Lightray]

While I don’t necessarily think that Niki had to fight Sylar, I think that they shouldn’t’ve had her stop because some stranger told her to. She finally wasn’t letting other people decide what she should do. I think the writers should have written the scene so that issue didn’t even come up (e.g., by having Sylar knock her away after she decides to step up… and then they go back to the Sylar-Peter grudgematch).

@Long Time Lurker

I don’t disagree with this at all. I just fail to see the justification. In a prior episode both Claire and Noah mentally convinced Telepa-cop (sorry, forgot his name) to shoot Claire to difuse the situation with Ted in the Bennet home. Neither Claire nor Noah had any hesitation or fear that Claire would be killed. Given that, and the fact that Claire has seen Peter die and come back twice now, I have a very hard time finding the concern convincing. I’d feel about as bad shooting Peter as I would pulling the tail off a lizard (i.e. sorry about the discomfort, Peter, but you’ll be ok).

Matt and Noah are much more accustomed to the thought of shooting someone, being a cop and a… um… black ops agent? Claire has never had to even think about shooting anyone until now. It’s silly to think that she’ll just blithly start blowing away people, superpowers or not, when everybody else also is uneasy with the idea.

Nathan should be more comfortable with the thought – he was in the Army, wasn’t he? (um… black ops, IIRC). But still – it’s his brother.

[D_Odds]

@Lightray

Nathan should be more comfortable with the thought – he was in the Army, wasn’t he? (um… black ops, IIRC). But still – it’s his brother.

That I’ll agree with, although removing Peter is, by far, the best solution, and Hiro couldn’t do it.

Unconfirmed spoiler on next season:

A friend told me he has read that Peter, Nathan, and Sylar are all signed for another season. We’re not used to providing cites for one another, so I’ll take him at his word.

[Loach]

@D_Odds

That I’ll agree with, although removing Peter is, by far, the best solution, and Hiro couldn’t do it.

Unconfirmed spoiler on next season:

A friend told me he has read that Peter, Nathan, and Sylar are all signed for another season. We’re not used to providing cites for one another, so I’ll take him at his word.

Since the theme of next season is “Generations” I am assuming we are going to see the origins of some of the families. The Petrelli/Linderman connection etc. Adrian Pasdar may be signed on to play his father in flashbacks. Just because the actors are signed on (if they are) does not mean the characters survived.

[Long_Time_Lurker]

@D_Odds

That I’ll agree with, although removing Peter is, by far, the best solution, and Hiro couldn’t do it.

Or a tranquilizer dart… or maybe the Haitian… or… oh, hell… I did enjoy the show, but I had a real hard time with that final scene. I’m still trying to sell myself on Sylar allowing himself to get stabbed, because someone with reflexes fast enough to stop bullets not being able to stop a running swordsman…

[Otto]

@Lightray

And then, in the final scene, (Niki) takes one decisive action – and then meekly listens to Peter (whom she doesn’t know from Adam) to go back and sit on the sidelines like an obedient little girl. All that long, rather dull story arc, and she’s back to being the girl who does what other people want her to do, not the woman who does what is right.

I rewatched the scene last night. Niki grabs the parking meter and clocks (heh) Sylar with it. She’s ready to continue the beat-down but then Micah calls out that DL needs her. She hesitates about going back to them and Peter says it’s OK, he’s got this. I have no problem with her characterization in this scene at all.

@several people

Or a tranquilizer dart…

Where exactly were they supposed to get a trank dart before Peter reached critical mass? And how even if they had one would they know that it would have any effect on someone with a healing factor?

[Long_Time_Lurker]

@Otto

Where exactly were they supposed to get a trank dart before Peter reached critical mass? And how even if they had one would they know that it would have any effect on someone with a healing factor?

How long has Peter known he was the likely candidate to go boom? I would think some preparations would be appropriate, and it’s not like he doesn’t have connections. Instead, the best plan he and his team came up with was… here, shoot me in the head (it won’t kill me, but I wont try to reassure you of that ahead of time, because I want you to freeze up at a critical moment).

[Telemark]

@Long Time Lurker

Or a tranquilizer dart…

His/Claire’s healing power may have rendered the tranq useless.

[Long_Time_Lurker]

@Telemark

His/Claire’s healing power may have rendered the tranq useless.

I don’t disagree (although it wouldn’t be difficult to test). I was just throwing out a hypothetical solution to a foreseen problem.

In my opinion, the writers wanted a brother redemption/self-sacrifice story, and implemented it in a very sloppy manner. I would have happily settled for Sylar telekinetically ridding the gun from the scene before fading off.

I would have also happily settled for Hiro visibly stopping time before making his sword charge. I don’t think it wouldn’t have been that hard to take the gaping flaws out of that last scene.

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

@Long Time Lurker

I don’t disagree (although it wouldn’t be difficult to test). I was just throwing out a hypothetical solution to a foreseen problem.

In my opinion, the writers wanted a brother redemption/self-sacrifice story, and implemented it in a very sloppy manner. I would have happily settled for Sylar telekinetically ridding the gun from the scene before fading off.

I would have also happily settled for Hiro visibly stopping time before making his sword charge. I don’t think it wouldn’t have been that hard to take the gaping flaws out of that last scene.

Or maybe Sylar could have melted the gun. That would have been much cooler.

–FCOD

[D_Odds]

@Long Time Lurker

I would have also happily settled for Hiro visibly stopping time before making his sword charge. I don’t think it wouldn’t have been that hard to take the gaping flaws out of that last scene.

I wouldn’t say if was gaping. I don’t think they wanted to show Hiro skewering a ‘helpless’, ‘defenseless’ Sylar. Unlike Noah delivering the coup-de-grace to Thompson, Hiro is as heroic as can be. Rescues kittens from trees and doesn’t kill a man when he can’t fight back (or doesn’t put a second bullet in his head when one did the job).

Better would have been Sylar turning his attention to Hiro, who doesn’t stop, and Peter getting Sylar’s attention back somehow. All we got was Peter being a Sylar punching bag when it came to power use.

[Lightray]

@FlyingCowOfDoom

Or maybe Sylar could have melted the gun. That would have been much cooler.

I think that power had to touch the metal to be used.

I suppose Sylar could’ve melted the sword and parking meter, but he seems really focused on his TK for fighting. He didn’t use the freeze-power or the radioactive-power, either.