Ummmm, if this is a serious statement: you are an asshole. “Gays are weird”? It’s attitudes like these, you fucking dipshit, that creates a need for safe zones to start with.
Dumbass.
Well…“weird” - that can be interpreted as not exactly a nice thing to say. But - I think bowlers who listen to Country Music are “weird” too. (Not that I want them to stop bowling, or stop listening to Country.) Am I a “fuckwad” now too? I think if the worst thing you can say about a person (or group) is that you think they are “weird”, then you are way ahead of the game.
Frankly, I take my Yosemite-loving, Classical-music-listenin’, pottery-makin’ weirdness as a badge of honor. Viva la weirdness!
Amulet,
Did I attack you? If so, please accept my most sincere apology for the faux pas. BTW, how do I get the mod to add a smilie that has a TONGUE firmly placed in the cheek?
p.s. I’ll always think of gays as weird; THAT’S JUST THE WAY I AM. Calling me an asshole/dipshit is not the way to get me to consider changing my mind; I hope you’re not (or, then again, maybe I do) a spokesman (is that correct?) for AFFA.
I agree. I think most of the posters on threads like this get caught up in a knee-jerk frenzy of offendedness(ok its not a word…sheesh) that they jump and spit and insult anybody that does not agree with them verbatim. Its just that alot of them share a common view that makes it seem “the right way”. Really a pitiful attitude from people who claim to be so smart. Ignore the meaning behind the words and attack the person based off a single sentence that can be construed any which way thier twisted, egotistical minds can twist it. Fuck em
There is a middle ground people. Just because somebody is not Gay, or agrees with everything that a Gay person says, does not make them fucking homephobic or moronic. It only shows your own pettiness and patheticness when you attack something said just to make yourself feel good or “smarter”. I see alot of fingers being pointed at people bringing up good points, and insults thrown for no reason other than they do not agree with the mainstream view. Bah! some Intellectuals.
It would be a little more analogous to say “I think straights are weird”. What’s the underlying connection that makes all gays and straights able to fit into a convenient mold? Sexual preference. That’s the only thing that connects me to other bisexuals on this board and on this planet. So now it’s “weird” for someone to be attracted to a particular gender (or both)? I don’t understand why. There’s nothing strange or eerie about homosexuality.
Go ahead, say straights are weird. I don’t mind. So what? So you find something weird? Who cares? I think eating grits is WEIRD. OK? So what?
If “weird” is obviously just a veiled attempt to imply that gayness, straightness, bowling, or whatever is this horrible thing, then yeah, take offense. I am with you there.
But “weird” isn’t always anything more than that. I find MANY things weird. Including many sexual practices, musical tastes, fashion tastes, food tastes. Many people find my vegetarianism “weird”. But hell - so what? So what harm is that doing to anyone? They are just private thoughts. Finding something weird does not always equal “I hate this and want it stamped out.” There are tons of WEIRD things in this world. I find some catapillars WEIRD. Some musical groups are WEIRD. Monkey toes are WEIRD. So am I an evil person now?
Yosemitebabe, you’re weird.
You also, based on the sample size presented within this thread, rock.
Carry on.
Yosemitebabe,
Don’t be talkin’ ‘bout my grits as “weird”; them’s fightin’ words!
Oh dear…
I knew I’d get it for the grits comment!
Just kiddin’. I wish we could get a tongue-in-cheek smilie; it might save a lot of post page space and electrons (and feelings, whatever the hell feelings are).
I find it exceptionally ironic that we’re talking about kids in high school, where being thought of as weird is the kiss of death. This is why the need for safe zones is out there: people think you’re weird, you are ostracized, and then demonized, and so on and so forth. It’s not that difficult a concept, guys. Really.
Yosemitebabe, if you think people are weird for something they don’t have a choice about, then I don’t know if I’d say you were an evil person (in fact, I’m trying to figure out where I said anyone is evil, but HEY draw any erroneous conclusion you want) but that is not exactly an open-minded attitude, is it? By this logic I am now free to say someone is weird for being black. Or being born with red hair. Or being over 6’ tall.
That just doesn’t make a damn bit of sense to me. And I doubt it ever will.
And 'Uigi, I’d never try to change your mind. Gay people are weird because they’re gay? Are you serious?
Amulet,
Here’s a post (you must have read) that best explains my definition of weirdness. “Weird” isn’t meant to indicate hatred or anything else; I just happen find gays “weird”. I will not tell you that I’m a red-headed, 6’3", black that happens to heterosexual; that’d be a guise. If the gay community can’t understand that there are those of us who’ll probably never understand or condone their lifestyle, then so be it. But direct attacks on my position isn’t likely to convince me to open/change my mind, either. “In your face” just won’t work.
p.s. NO MORE GRITS JABS!
(where’s that damned t.i.c. smilie at?!?)
But 'Uigi wasn’t telling high school students that they were WEIRD. I don’t see him at the schoolyard yelling it to them. He was on the SDMB, where presumably, most people are educated enough to know that “weird” can apply to many things, and may even (really) be considered a badge of honor. Or if they didn’t know it before, they know it now, right?
It was just a dramatic, hypothetical question. No, I don’t recall you actually using the term “evil”, but a few other non-flattering terms were used.
Who cares? If a person find something (anything) weird, but is free-thinking and open-minded enough to know not to interfere, or try to hamper anyone else from doing (or being) the “weird” thing - what is the harm? Or, if they just have a gut reaction of “Oh my gosh, how weird”, but they would never DREAM of doing anything negative about it, what’s the big deal?
Hey - I can think whatever I want weird if I want. Many naturally occurring things are weird, in my mind. Like, as mentioned before, monkey toes. But just thinking something is weird doesn’t really amount to much. To me (at least) “weird” isn’t a big deal. It’s a major part of my life. It am a 98% bona-fide WEIRD person, and I wouldn’t have it any other way.
As far as finding gayness “weird”, well, I don’t personally find it that weird, or care one way or the other. But, as I mentioned before, I find certain sexual practices “weird”. (I’m sure many of us do.) Just because I wouldn’t want to do them myself, my natural reaction is “That’s weird!” But you know what? So what? No one’s asking me to participate. And I am wholeheartedly behind anyone doing anything that they find natural (as long as it is between consenting adults, yadda yadda.) So someone may feel that the were born a certain way, and have no choice in the matter. And even if I think they are “weird” because of it, I also usually think “Hey - more power to them, why should I care?” And if they actually do something (sexual or otherwise) that I find “weird”, am I not entitled to hold the opinion that it is weird? How are someone’s privately-held thoughts hurting you, anyway? What are you, the Thought Police? Do you want to dictate what other people may or may not find “weird”?
That’s fine. You don’t have to get it. And you are invited to think I am “weird”. I don’t mind.
[sub]And I am waiting for someone to take offense that I find monkey toes “weird”. Come on, I know you’re out there.[/sub]
'Uigi…
You are free to think whatever you like. I am also free to think you are an asshole for thinking whatever you like. And you are free to think I am an uptight bitch for thinking you are an asshole for thinking whatever you like. And so on, ad infinitum. This is how America works. Ain’t it grand?
Of course, the fact that you have admitted that you do not condone the homosexual lifestyle (whatever that is) leads me to doubt your sincerity. I am curious what it is that you or anyone else needs to condone or understand. I don’t understand the straight-and-monogamous-for-life lifestyle, either, but I couldn’t care less, as the fact that other people live it doesn’t affect my life one way or the other.
So, tell me please, what it is you cannot condone about other people living their lives as they feel it should be lived, loving those whom they love, and not harming anyone else?
See my note to 'Uigi above. As you are free to think anything is weird, I am free to think that you are an idiot to think that. That’s how that whole free speech thing works.
Hmmm…well, I part company with 'Uigi with the “condone” thing - that irritates me. I don’t see why other people feel the need to “condone” my vegetarianism, someone else’s sexual preference, or anything. So I don’t get that.
And yes, you are “free” to think I am an idiot for having privately-held beliefs about monkey toes, grits, or anything else. (Bear in mind, I have taken pains to point out that I don’t find homosexuality particularly weird, nor do I care either way that much.) I have invited you (quite politely) to think I am “weird” for thinking these private thoughts about monkey toes, etc. I have not invited you to think I’m an idiot, however. (But you are, of course, free to do so.) And I am free to think you are one of those knee-jerk Thought Police Types for actually giving a damn about my private thoughts, considering that I have made it very clear that I draw a distinct line between thinking something is “weird”, and actually doing something unkind, negative, or mean about it.
Amulet,
I was hoping this discussion would have gone a bit smoother; kids in all sorts of circumstances are in need of guidance and counseling, but I’ve come to the conclusion that the reason they’re not going to get that assistance is that in-your-face gay wackos don’t have the common sense to back off and discuss problems in a reasonable manner.
You’ve amply demonstrated your skills in that arena tonight.
Ciao
amazing, are you aware that you just agreed with us?
quote to me anything that says that’s wrong. anything in this whole fucking thread that says kids should be afraid of their teachers judging their moral choices. go on.
are you saying that high schoolers are incapable of understanding that they shouldn’t harrass eachother, period? because i’m pretty sure that occured to me at age 5, when my mother beat my ass for beating up my little brother. you just don’t do that sort of shit.
yosemitebabe, i understand. don’t feel that your pain was somehow lesser than someone else’s just because yours was not the cause du jour. gay kids are not the only ones capable of feeling completely and totally ostrasized and rejected.
bigotted bitch. next.
obviously you don’t understand you dim-witted fuckwad. there is no “until they are.” there is only right now. right now any kid caught harrassing any other kid for any fucking reason anywhere on school property should be punished. end of story.
right now any student should be able to ask any teacher or guidance counselor for help on any problem and not become the victim of that faculty member’s prejudice. perhaps teachers should refer these students to the counselors (those faculty members who are trained to help students), and perhaps there are times when that would not be a good idea.
that is the fucking point. now, i challenge you to respond directly to the previous two paragraphs directly, and i dare you to disagree. because if you do, you will prove yourself a hypocrite. you will prove that you yourself are incapable of the kind of compassion you accuse us of not showing. and if you do not respond, you will only confirm my suspicions that you have been purposefully twisting words and responding to only that which you can use to “prove” what hateful ignorant people we are. go on, i fucking dare you.
how in the hell can it be wrong to insist that all students with problems be helped like that?
historically speaking, you are probably right. but today that problem should not exist. yes, i’m sure it still does, but that’s why people can be fired. the counselors should be just as much there for the gay kids as for any other kid, willing and able to to address their specific problems. if they are not, then they should be replaced.
actually, the school principal cited recent racial problems as his reason for banning the shirt. (was that in the article i linked? the one that i read in the afa journal that was mailed to me was substantially different than the story posted on the website. if this info was not available, i will attempt to find an article that provides it.)
so, yes, racial problems do exist. no, racial safe zones do not.
are you actually claiming that a school which would not allow a t-shirt proclaiming gay pride would allow straight pride pamphlets to be distributed on campus? that’s just naive.
in my opinion, this makes it worse. the school itself (via the faculty members who are participating) is sporting the logo of gay pride while simultaneously banning a shirt that proclaims “straight pride.”
yes, he may be a twit. but his shirt didn’t put down gays or bis. it didn’t use any defamatory language. it didn’t call for the harrassment of anyone. the logo on his shirt was about as passive as you can get while still believing that being straight is better. and as fucked up as the idea is that he is better than anyone, he has a right to believe that.
i will entirely give up this debate when you explain to me how wearing a shirt infringes on anyone else’s rights.
better solution: safe zones for all. places where any child can feel safe and can get help for his or her problems. gee… didn’t somebody already say that?
oh? i didn’t see anything in there comparing gay kids to any other group of kids in any school. in fact, all your statistics even claimed to prove was that gay kids get picked on. so either you didn’t understand your own statistics, or you are lying. which is it?
yes. and? do you have a point, here?
not in my high school it wasn’t. see, we had this thing where harrassing other students was grounds for punishment.
fuck. i’m tired of reading the same things and quoteing and responding.
there are two very important things that i want to say.
i hope flesh doesn’t get upset with me for saying this, and i hope that no one takes this as an excuse to ignore the logical things he has said, but this is the man that i have decided that i want to spend my life with. i know him. i have seen him interact with people. we live in fucking montrose for god’s sake. and i don’t give a fuck if you think it’s condescending to say so, but lots of our friends are gay. some of my friends in high school were gay. i see that as proof that we are not bigots. you somehow see it as proof that we are. would you feel better if i could say with certainty that i am friends with only heterosexuals? i’m sorry. i don’t pick my friends based on who they fuck.
it upsets me to know end to hear you call him a bigot when he’s said and done nothing to deserve it. you are calling him a bigot simply because he feels that a problem should be dealt with differently than you do. you are judgeing him based on nothing. you are acting like a bigot yourself.
the second thing that i want to say is very hard for me. i don’t understand how flesh and yosimitebabe, mrvisible or anyone else can talk about the way they were treated in high school without reservation the way they seem to be doing. maybe it’s just that i was taught by my peers that no one gave a fuck about my problems, and that i should keep my damn mouth shut.
i was treated very badly in school. not high school. not junior high. school. i can remember kids excluding me as far back as kindergarten. i remember one of the first girls who ever wanted to be my friend (in the third grade) dropping me like a hot potato when she realized that i was unpopular.
fuck i don’t want to talk about this. but i’ll leave it here so that you can see that i tried. the point was that i understand how they feel. to this day i am not over the way i was treated, and i have not dealt with most of the way i felt and feel.
in high school, i didn’t feel like i could tell anyone. nobody cared. my parents didn’t care. my grandparents didn’t understand. the one school counselor i tried to talk to betrayed me.
to this day i would feel uncomfortable talking to a teacher in a “safe zone” for gays. it’s fucking hard enough for me to think that anyone – even flesh who holds me when i start crying in the middle of the night for no reason – cares. i still feel that my problems are not important enough; i would not be able to convince myself that a safe zone teacher wanted to help me.
i don’t know how i can express that i actually feel that the problems the gay kids are having are more important than mine. and you would think that because i can say this out loud and see how that’s illogical that i would assuade my fears. but that’s only because you can’t see me shaking and crying as i type this.
i think i’m going to go throw up.
fuck, i didn’t say it right.
the point is that if you say here is a place to help this one special group, then people like me who are already convinced that we are not in enough pain for anyone to really care, i am convinced that it’s not enough for you to care.
i’m not coming back to this board now. i can’t come back and face any of you having even admitted to a fraction of the way i feel.
maybe now you can understand why a fucking straight kid might need special help.
I did not say I DID, just that I am free to. Actually, I don’t know much about you one way or the other to think that you are weird, or an idiot, or whatever.
If you keep them to yourself, then I don’t give a damn one way or the other. If you put them up on a messageboard, then I’m inclined to pay more attention, especially if the person who puts it up has made it clear in previous and subsequent posts that the people to whom he is referring are not deserving of equal consideration or tolerance.
You thinking that eating grits is weird is not contributing to an environment where grits-eaters are already scared that they are going to be beaten to death when they eat grits out in public. His public declaration that gays are weird, in conjunction with the fact that he doesn’t condone the “homosexual lifestyle”, does contribute to an environment in which people are routinely harassed and beaten for being who they are. And as such, I will stand up and call him a dipshit each and every time.