What’s wrong with giving Anne Frank a drum set?
You’ve answered the question, thank you.
As for what I was trying to figure out (and what DT was getting at) was whether you could see the distinction between an activity whose truth is based on popularity (an election), and something whose truth is not based on popular opinion. An example of something not based on popular opinion would be whether I am 10 times taller than my house. Even if many people believed this (maybe due to internet rumor), I would still be considerably shorter than my house. My height relative to my house is not determined by the beliefs of others.
KGS, if you can’t forgive, you should at least understand many people’s opposition and vitriol towards you on this subject. For the sake of this argument, I will assume that you are right about your evidence and thesis. That doesn’t change the fact that there have been thousands of prior claims like this, in all areas of science and physics, made by people in the same way you are doing now- talking up proof they have and will reveal soon, and then the world will see they were right. But it never happens. False claims like these (and remember I am not referring to yours) are a nuisance, waste people’s time, and hinder scientific progress. They piss people off. So assuming your thesis and evidence is true, why are you going on about it in the same way that the proven crackpots have all done? Talking up evidence that you have but no one else can get to see yet? You realize that everyone else, until they get to see your evidence, has no reason to believe you aren’t just like all the others, and that is why they are annoyed and act like jerks to you? When major scientific breakthroughs happen, they shouldn’t be teased like this. It’s quite irresponsible and counterproductive.
On account of if they made any noise up there in the attic the Nazis would find them and send them off to concentration camps. Which did happen, so I guess in retrospect the drum set wouldn’t have made a difference…
window seat, please, I get carsick
What you want then is a tuba, so she could make that common “wa waaaa” noise when they were found.
Don’t suppose you could book another ticker while you’re at it there, SA?
KGS, Der is an emotional cripple, a thirty-something year old child who never got over being picked on in high school and largely attempts to cling to some sort of self worth by hating other people and feeling superior to them. Religious people, Americans, people who base their politics on reason rather than blinding hatred, whatever. He should’ve been banned long ago, but since he doesn’t just flame constantly in GD, but flames massive groups of people, it’s okay. He’s even been congratulated for flaming every single Conservative Doper on the board with the caveat that it was just his opinion that all Conservatives are evil bastards. ~shrugs~
By the same token, you believe you can read “auras”… over the internet. You’ve related a story of a ten day period of mania during which you couldn’t tell being hospitalized from being taken aboard an alien space ship. And you’re using a scientific hypothesis (not properly labeled a theory, at all) to prop up absurd claims that you’ve got some sort of proof of ‘spirit’ or ‘soul’ or what have you. They display a level of grandiose delusion that makes sane people realize that something is just not right.
Der is the very definition of a jerk, but you have demonstrated clearly that you are mentally ill and require help. It’s in your own best interest to talk to a qualified professional about your delusions of being able to write a paper, proving the ‘soul’, that will revolutionize physics (or be the basis of a fictional novel). Claims like that stand out as bright, flashing warning lights for most normal people. Normal people don’t believe stuff like that, let alone make those sorts of claims as if they were sane things to say.
Der is a jerk because the only way he knows to feel a glimmer of warmth about himself is to hate strongly enough and convince himself that he’s better than those he hates and thus ‘good’ since they are pure ‘evil’. It’s like watching 8 year old children who have to tear each other down in order to build themselves up. He’s a sad, pathetic, lonely, angry man-child.
But you’re in need of the help of a mental health care professional. And this thread is just a mess. You really should consider taking a break from the internet until you can get your delusions under control. All you’re doing now is making yourself look absurd. Fuck, when you can’t even Pit Der correctly, it’s time to reexamine where your head is at.
Cervaise, even my Catholic ass agreed with your post for the most part, but c’mon you’re better than that. True or not that was just cruel. IMO truth is like a scalpel. Sometimes we need it to cut out cancer, but once put the knife is put to the skin we should all be ready to deal with the consequences. Since it seems like the board is already halfway to shunning KSG, I don’t know if that’s the case. I guess what I’m saying is that while I don’t disagree with a lot of your points, in the end I care more for KSG and less about who was right. You’re a very helpful and kind guy, and I don’t know if that post was really helpful and kind.
**
To KSG, listen, I come from a belief system that most on this board don’t follow or even respect. With that said, you’re coming off very badly. Let’s look at the facts:
10-day manic streak followed by hospitalization
anger at field of psychiatry
claim of Asperger’s and faulty domestic life
claim to detect auras and other spiritual powers
Look, without even reading this thread, those above four things would make most people skeptical. For starters, you need to stop being so defensive and angry. I hate to join the pile-on, but I also have a gut feeling that you are somewhat mentally ill currently.
From my religious standpoint, I believe that the things you claim can exist. From my personal experience (not to mention my natural skepticism), i’m doubtful. But really, this thread isn’t about your spirituality. This is about YOU. Right now YOU sound loony-tunes. Whether that’s society’s fault, your parents fault, or your fault… that’s up for you to decide. In the end though, this isn’t about fault. This is about who you are, who others think you are, how you represent yourself to others, and other such hard issues. The issues I just mentioned are hard for everyone, let alone those with Aspergers, hallucinations, and whatever else you suffer from. I’m not saying that to be mean. Hang in there, and PM me if you ever need an ear.
Yes, I understand the distinction. To my view, it was Der Trihs who did not. He used the word “truth”, but did not distinguish which type of truth he was talking about. He merely assumed I would know. I pointed this out, and he did not respond to my example, he merely meandered into a completely different topic.
His word choice was particularly deceptive, in a thread about human souls where “measurable truth”, or “consensus truth”, does not apply. How can you measure a soul? No one can agree on whether they even exist or not; and to those who DO believe in souls, there are endless religions and philosophies which disagree on what the soul is, what happens to your soul after death, and whether the soul is immortal or not. Hence, the entire discussion is as far from “measurable truth” as you can get.
Sometimes, it does. But you’re correct, I did overstate the significance of this hypothesis. The fatal problem is, my “theory” is inherently non-falsifiable (I think) which naturally makes it more philosophy than science. That’s not to say there’s no scientific value to it – some of the connections I’ve already shown to others, and they are quite intrigued.
I’m not. I haven’t even mentioned it on any public forum, anywhere, until this thread. You can thank Der Trihs for drawing it out of me, btw – he asserted the lack of evidence of souls as factual evidence that they do not exist – so I countered with my own direct, observed, and studied evidence. No, I did not reveal the evidence, because I wanted Der Trihs to make a choice first. His lack of choice confirmed my decision to move it from the “science” pile to the “fiction” pile; not because I no longer believe it, but because IMO it ain’t worth my effort to “prove” it in a scientific manner. Let somebody else do the dirty work for science – I’m going to write a screenplay instead.
Who says? Besides, it didn’t sound like anyone was all that interested. I’ll reveal it eventually…but 'til then, you’ll just have to wait until the movie comes out. 
Baah, I know how this was supposed to go - KGS pits** DT** and waits for the usual pile-on of people who just hate DT’s guts. It should have been a textbook case.
Thankfully, so far, it looks like only FinnAgain is willing to oblige, and the whole thing has nicely turned around to show that KGS is, in fact, bat-shit insane (but he has secret evidence that spirits exist. But he won’t show it to us, oh no!)
Comedy gold.
The popular vote (or even the electoral vote) doesn’t determine truth. It determines who gets to be president according to the rules of our constitution. I’m not sure where “truth” even comes into play there, unless you are arguing over the veracity of the votes.
Besides that, from context alone, it was painfully clear what DT meant by that. The fact you couldn’t see the difference in a democratic decision so the majority gets their way over an objective reality that derives no truth, no matter how many people seem to believe it, or wish for it to be true, is creepily bothersome.
I’m getting the sense that you think it more apt to believe in spirits because the sheer numbers of humanity that do – they couldn’t be that stupid – over the more likely idea that humanity is flawed in that regard; we can be very stupid, misguided, delusional, desperate, and even deceitful (to others and to ourselves) regarding what we believe in, because it’s what we want to believe in. Why? Because the alternative is frightening and scary, and that’s the best way they know how to deal with it. Convince themselves that there’s more to reality than our bleak, boring, hard lives. No one wants to cease to exist. Just wink out. So they selectively choose and interpret the things science can’t explain to bend it toward their own, personal pile “evidence.”
Whether a soul/spirit exists or not… no one gets to vote on that. What is, is. And DT is right, the evidence doesn’t look good for the existence of one. I’m sorry for all you mental issues and wish you the best of luck. I hope you can find peace.
aka: Anecdotes written down on looseleaf?
Okay, I see the winky. But please tell me you don’t seriously think that one day your, as yet unwritten screenplay, will one day turn out to be a blockbuster. And we’ll all be eating crow because of it, and its power to turn the world of physics on its ear.
Point taken. However, I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind here. I only came to the pit because I wanted a piece of Der Trihs, and he slipped through my grasp, dammit.
Well, that’s the part I just don’t get. I read my posts, and they sound perfectly reasonable. It’s not just me, either – I’ve discussed this so-called “evidence” with several friends & associates already. They seem intrigued, and I don’t think it’s because they are humoring me. Frankly, it’s the SDMB “hive mind” which sounds delusional to me at this point, not myself. (From my own perspective, naturally.)
Actually, he sounds more like a former bully than someone formerly bullied. That only conjecture, though – I detect no fear behind his words (or in his aura) and that’s usually an emotion I pick up right away, shield or no shield. Fear is pretty damn common among human beings, so his lack of fear is…interesting.
It’s more than belief to me, but yes.
Yes, but that part should be completely irrelevant. Frankly, I’m dejected that people have made that a prominent issue, in light of other SDMB members with self-professed “mental” illness, from AHunter3 to the whole bipolar crowd. I felt it was safe to reveal that part of myself, but looks like I’ll rue the day instead. :rolleyes:
That’s not how I read him, but maybe I should examine his former pittings more closely and find out more about this social retard.
On second thought…fuck it. Ain’t worth my time.
(Mods, feel free to close this thread at your discretion.)
The cynical side of me says, “If you have to wonder if anyone was humoring you, they probably were.”
The more compassionate side says, “First of all, what makes them qualified to even have an opinion about your hypothesis? They probably don’t unless they are already quite educated (if not a professional) in that area. So, they were probably humoring you.”
As an artist, I never ask for criticism from my friends and family*… only from my peers and respected colleagues. Friends and family will never hurt your feelings if they can avoid by simply saying “Wow! That’s fascinating!” Besides, most of 'em are a little biased you know? You do know that, don’t you?
*I do love their compliments when they come from the heart, but it’s rarely anything I can take to heart. Only support and fuzzy feelings.
I’ve learned the hard way not to show my work to family until it’s finished. They always give the worst possible advice.
Trust me, I have zero illusions about how difficult it is to break into the industry. But without dreams of success…there’s no point even trying, right?
Um, no. You made statements; I responded. No straw men, no hijacking.
Why would I trust the unsupported, fantastic claims of ANYONE ?
You invoked a theory you are obviously clueless about, one which has no support for souls in it ( nothing does, after all ). And you don’t detect anything in my “aura” because it’s in your imagination, or you are just making this gibberish up.
It’s far from "measurable “truth” because there’s NO EVIDENCE OF A SOUL. No evidence, and no reason to believe in them beyond empty assertions that aren’t even consistent with each other.
No; you didn’t reveal it because it doesn’t exist. Just like all the other frauds and lunatics who make similar claims never reveal their fake evidence, except the most gullible of people who can be relied on to believe anything whatsoever.
I seriously doubt there will be a movie, and if there was, who’d recognize it as anything other than another work of fiction ? Probably not even a very good one.
Most likely they are simply just as gullible as yourself, or patronizing you, if you hang out with the auras, “magick”, and crystals crowd.
Like what ? Get medical care ?
Ah, now I’m starting to sense the fear in you. I was wondering when your shield would start to crack up. 
So what’s your belief, then? We all go to sleep and vanish when we die? Sounds like an utter waste of self-awareness to me – by your token, everyone should become a serial killer, or a child molester, or a terrorist, because why not? Everyone’s gonna die someday, and life itself is worthless. Is that who you are, a psychopath?
I can’t predict whether I’ll succeed or not, but bite your tongue when it comes to judging my skill. I can write, motherfucker. I can draw in a reader and keep 'em occupied. I don’t know how I do it, but that’s something everyone who’s read my stories has said. It’s not enough to guarantee my success (or even getting noticed, which is the hardest part) but it’s a step up. (And you can forget about getting a signed copy of my novel, either! N’yah!)
Hey, we already know you’re a jerk. Try playing a different tune for once, bully-boy.
Yeah, right. Fear what ?
And you don’t sense anything, and no one except possibly yourself thinks you do.
Yes; that’s what all the evidence points to.
Now there’s a standard religious argument. No, not believing in souls doesn’t make you less moral. Rather the opposite; it means you have to worry about real world consequences, concentrate on making the real world a better place. Believing in the soul means you can justify any atrocity and massacre because you can just tell yourself that your victims aren’t really dead. You can kill thousands or millions with a clear conscience, secure all the while in the conviction that you aren’t doing anything worse than slashing someone’s tires, because the body is just a vehicle for what matters. “Kill them all, and let God sort them out” is the kind of attitude believing in souls produces.
The nonexistence of the soul doesn’t make life worthless; quite the opposite.It means that life DOES have value. Handwaving away death and suffering in the real world as unimportant because it’s the soul that matters is a standard religious line. It’s disbelief in the soul that demands that you take real life seriously, and not some fantasy afterlife.
Oh, another Trihs pitting, my watch must be slow…
Not to mention it’s argumentum ad consequentiam. Just because the lack of a soul, god, or afterlife would (for whatever already shaky reason) make everyone want to be a rapist, murderer, molester etc doesn’t prove anything about the topic. In other words, KGS, you answered his retort with… a non-answer, you also managed to work an ad hominem (saying his argument has no validity BECAUSE of his fictitious beliefs regarding rape and murder… which even if he DID believe wouldn’t change the FACTUAL BASIS of his argument one damn), AND a strawman* (saying he believes those things at all when he gave no evidence to support that) so… good job… I guess?
Oh, and while we’re here and since this is the pit anyway:
By the Nine Hells! Would people stop using this (nothing personal here KGS, I see this a LOT, you’re not alone), if you’re not trying to change anyone’s mind why the hell are you even bothering to post an argument? You can’t have it both ways, either post cites and write analysis from BOTH SIDES of the debate and quietly walk out, or argue a side. One of these is letting people make up their own mind, one of these is, at least at some level, trying to change minds (Devil’s Advocate excepted) I’ll leave it as an exercise to the reader to decide which serves which function.
*I think, I’ve never understood the strawmen fallacy that well, it’s just mischaracterizing your opponent right? Or am I missing something that makes it not a strawman?