I don’t think honesty is at play here- I think he really believes these comments based on personal observations and experiences- its just he’s not a bright guy, and has this one way wrong, like if you asked Forest Gump to solve a trig problem.
Ah yes, spoken like an educated and thoughtful man.
:rolleyes:
There “ain’t no English” coming out of your mouth either, Gary. Go away.
What about it makes any sense at all?
No, it’s not. Jesus, what amazing ignorance.
Because, of course, the difference between Sunni and Shi’ite is the one and only peice of information anyone could possibly know about Iraq. Once you know that, you understand the entire Iraq situation.
That baseball execs would think that Latino immigrants were easier to control than brothers from the hood.
Um… yes it is. Just ask any racist.
I didn’t say I knew everything there was to know about Iraq. I only said I knew more than Bush. It requires very little knowledge to know more than Bush.
Two words - Manny Ramirez.
From my local newspaper’s coverage of the Cleveland Indians today:
“Indians shortstop Jhonny Peralta…said he works daily with infield coach Luis Rivera on balls to his left and right…Peralta, too, has enjoyed the positive reinforcement after a busy offseason…He spent time at the gym almost every day, frequently turning down a chance to hang out with his friends to instead lift weights. He…skipped winter ball at the Tribe’s request, so he had more time to work out. “I will do it every offseason” Peralta said. “It’s my work; I have to do it. Now I see something good that I do; I know I’m working good. I feel different. I can move better.””
Gary Sheffield: "Where I’m from, you can’t control us. You might get a guy to do it that way for a while because he wants to benefit, but in the end, he is going to go back to being who he is. And that’s a person that you’re going to talk to with respect, you’re going to talk to like a man.
“These are the things my race demands.”
Peralta’s having a very good year. But he better skip the offseason workout to hang with his friends, if he wants to meet Sheffield’s definition of being a man. :rolleyes:
And why would they think that? Since when did Latinos have a reputation for being “easier to control” than anyone? What evidence is there either that this is true or that baseball executives ever thought this?
Okay, I’ll ask a Nazi if he’s the same race as a Jew. According to your ridiculous blather, if I asked a Nazi if they were the same race as a Jew, because they have the same skin color, the Nazi would agree. Jesus, what a stupid thing to say. Nazis weren’t racist against Jews? Slavs? Gypsies? Same skin color. What the hell is wrong with you?
I wonder how long it would take me to find a Japanese who thought that Chinese were a different race? Not long, I bet. Do you think the Tutsi and Hutus thought they were all the same in 1994 because they had the same skin color? Israelis and Arabs generally have the same skin color - are you saying there’s not a bit of racism there?
The idea that “skin color” is the only aspect there is to racism is idiotic. There’s also ethnic background, national origin, language, you name it. Race is subjective and it often attacks people based on lots of things other than “skin color.” For example, take Gary Sheffield. He’s a racist; he thinks Latinos are servile and don’t stand up for themselves. Racist, pure and simple. I don’t think Latinos are a separate race, of course… but Gary Sheffield does.
You don’t know much about racism or baseball. Why should I assume you know anything about Iraq? I don’t think you know the difference between a Shi’ite and a Sunni, either, though I’m sure you’ll rush over to Wikipedia now to brush up.
Actually, you said you knew more than Bush and his staff. Quite a different kettle of fish, even if they are all the same species. To claim that you know more than his staff seems a bit grandiose.
Let’s be clear. The point is not whether the policy as enacted is good, bad, right, wrong, or indifferent. Merely the extent of the knowledge.
As for my points, **RickJay **is doing a bang-up job. I might just add that the child of an Indian/Norwegian couple might be the same color as the child of an African/Mexican couple. It would take an extreme twist of logic to claim that the children are the same race.
You make some good points but I still think Sheffield was talking about cultural differences, not racial. More accurately, he was talking about how he thinks the SUITS in MLB view Latino immigrants and homegrown blacks.
I didn’t say I knew anything about Iraq other than knowing the difference between Shia and Sunni Islam.
Bitch, I’ve forgotten more about ANY world religion than you’ll ever know. For fuck’s sake, have you never read anything I’ve posted on this board? Wikipedia this ass.
Dio, he never said anything at all about what they think, or what he thinks they think. He made direct, simple, unambiguous statements about how Latinos are, and how Blacks are. Not a word about how they are perceived. Do you think you can read his mind? Go back and read his statements again. To bring in the Suits in MLB is just bizarre on such scant justification. You wouldn’t let that shit slide for a second in a GD thread about religion. I’ve seen you take people to task countless times for reading more into an interpretation than the text allows. Gander sauce, goose sauce, eh?
Why is it always about the sauce with you?
Ugh. I hate to engage in discussions of “racist” behavior here (yet here I am, sucked in once again) because it so often devolves into a disection of language; a microscopic inspection into the minutae of intention that no one but the offending party can possibly know and a debate over semantics.
I always thought that an opinion about a group of individuals, based on their race (and, right or wrong, in this case I think Mr. Sheffield is speaking in terms of race, in his mind at least) is by defintion “racist”.
It seems to me that in GS’s opinion, there’s an “us” (black players) and a “them” (Latino players) and in his opinion there’s a distinct difference in the way each group is treated, based on each groups’ behavior / temperment. How is this not racist? Don’t get me wrong; in the end he sounds like an ass, so I don’t really care if the adjective “racist” is added or not.
More grace notes. Everything else is affectation.
But he was describing why he thinks thse two groups get TREATED differently, so the perception of the suits (or at least Sheffield’s perception of the perception of the suits) has to be taken as part and parcel of his whole rant.
I’m getting really tired of this whole argument. I never really even cared much about it. I just think that there’s pernicious racism and there’s stupid generalizations and that Sheffield was more guilty of the latter than the former.
I would agree with you there. However, I still find it racist. Not pernicious. And probably much more harmful to him than to anyone else. But racist just the same.
I also thought it racist to highlight perceived differences between races via a gross generalization- asians smart, jews greedy, etc.
How is “Latins are docile, easy to control” not like making claims that blacks are the opposite?
You don’t even have to make the extrapolation. He came out and said that Blacks are not docile and easy to control.
That’s funny- I bet if a white manager said the same thing, blacks can’t be controlled, but in a negative way, Sheffield would be deeply offended.
Latino player agrees with Sheffield.
Apparently, it wasn’t about race at all. It was either about most Latino players not having the ability to speak English and defend themselves or knowing if they did speak up, chances are they’d be headed back to their impovershed origins.
In fact, it seems that Sheffield was saying that, as Americans, you can’t control us.
While Sheffield didn’t articulate it well, maybe he has a point. MLB invests in Latin American players, even going so far as to subsidies baseball academies for them (though the academies have their own problems) while not investing in player development in areas where blacks live. Baseball lets the high schools and colleges do that, and with inner city schools dropping baseball because of its expense and many players not able to attend college, that leaves the black players out of baseball.
I am no expert on this by any means, but there is some baseball draft loophole where by Latin players aren’t subject to the draft of American high school and college players, so MLB does not hesitate to try to circumvent its draft and get Latin players eager to get off the island on cheap, relatively speaking.
Interesting, comrade - but my understanding is that “sandlot” baseball is far more popular in urban areas in Latin America than in urban black neighborhoods in the U.S., and there’s probably even less money available to support it. Baseball “academies” likely are plugging into a preexisting talent pool that has no comparable form in America.
What this may reflect, at least in part, is a natural progression in sport where minorities see it as a path out of poverty - then, when opportunities improve there’s less interest and another minority group becomes dominant. Irish, Italian and black players used to be preeminent in American professional baseball - now it’s increasingly Latin players.
Of course, if someone can demonstrate that Latin players are paid less than others in MLB and are subject to deportations and other harassment, I’ll be willing to reconsider Sheffield’s arguments. For now, he strikes me as a bigot and a jerk - and I actually had some respect for him before this.