I love watching liberals jump through hoops as they try and explain why their racism is a good thing and other people’s racism is a bad thing, rather than just saying (groundbreaking idea coming) ALL racism is bad. You can’t create equality by treating people unequally, if their are socal clubs for any segment of the population, you have to allow social clubs for all segments of the population. A much better idea, of course, is to get rid of all race based clubs and (another groundbreaking idea ahead) treat everyone as equal individuals.
Actually, this isn’t true at all anymore. As of the 1990s, as a percentage of the total (black or white)population, the black middle class was larger than the white middle class. While it is true that the hyper-rich are still overwealmingly white, I think most of us would admit that a middle class income would constitute “thriving”.
Total numbers wise, of course, whites still far outnumber blacks in the middle class. And the upper class. And the lower class. Go figure, there are lots more of them.
White 3rd-Generation Irish Catholic Male checking in:
A Caucasian’s Club is fucking offensive.
Minority groups create groups because they have and are currently being discriminated against. Compared to what minorities regularly endure, any case of ‘reverse discrimination’ is so rare and so mild in comparison, that to make that comparison as a justification of this club is to claim, “I’m a fucking idiot.”
Now, granted, those crackers have the right to free speech and association. But I have the right to claim that what they’re doing is at best imbecilic and at worst racist.
You mean, just another immigrant group like those from Italy? The ones we call “Italian Americans?”
I think it’s pretty damned interesting that you would deny to my wife’s colleague a descriptor that clearly states who he is: an American whose roots lie in Africa. On racial surveys, he checks the “African-American” box; is he lying when he does so? Should he instead check “other”?
More to the point, I’d like to see a cite for the proposition that “African-American” is synonymous with “descended from American slaves.”
I know a lot of African immigrants, Dewey. I know people from Liberia, Nigeria and Somalia. They call themselves Liberian-Americans, Somalian-Americans and Nigerian-Americans. Tyhey haven’t had their cultural heritage stolen from them so they don’t have to resort to a broad descriptor like “African.”
The fact is, “African-American” as it is used in popular parlance refers to descendants of slaves. If you don’t like that term then make up another one. It doesn’t change the fact that a community of those descendants exists in the US and that they face a unique set of issues which white people don’t.
Neither dictionary.com nor m-w.com agree with you. I’d lay money that the OED doesn’t either, but you’ve got to pay to access that and I’m cheap. I defy you to find a reputable source of the commonly-understood meanings of words that says the term means what you say it means.
Allright, if this club was formed to be a snarky comeback to a double standard it’s one thing. If it was formed to explore the unique cultures of europe it’s another. I have Central asian heritage, Made up of russian, mongolian, kyrgzstani, and uyghr chinese genetics; guess what? To those who can’t regonize the physical characteristics, mostly I look white. I think that terms like “Caucasian” are demeaning to the diversity of european culture, which is just as valid as any other to celebrate. There is no validity in saying “Its a white man’s world”. A more accurate statement would be something to the effect of “Its a white anglo-saxon protestant’s world”. Most of the people from my heritage display A mixture of White and asian features, some closer to one group than the other. So what if I look white? I’m Proud of my heritage and have every right to celebrate it.
I’m gonna follow up my last post with a specific example that happened today and made me think of this argument.
I was sitting at a coffee shop with some friends, one of whom is black. In the course of the conversation, she used some ghetto-style slang, and guess what happened? We laughed at her about it! Wanna know why? She is not from the fucking ghetto! We would have treated a white student in the same position the exact same way, because to us, black does not = ghetto. Just because someone is black, we don’t assume that they grew up in poverty. It seems obvious enough, but judging from the posts in this thread, there are some seriously well-intentioned and intelligent people who could stand to reconsider their views on race.
When we can all just chill out and honestly say that race doesn’t matter, it won’t any more. We’re getting closer. When my generation makes up the workforce, the politicians, the teachers, etc. I think we’ll be a lot closer than we are now. I can honestly say that I’m there. The only time that race even enters my mind when dealing with a person is when I’m checking them out - every race has certain unique and especially attractive features. But even then, it’s an EXTERNAL thing.
Race is purely a matter of appearance, and I make no more assumptions about a hispanic or black person than I do about someone with red hair. It may register as being an exception to the norm as far as external appearance goes, but it does not lead me to believe anything about what a person is like or what they’ve been through.
So what? Aren’t these the same institutions that decided that “bling-bling”, a word that nobody has ever used geniunely, would be a timeless addition to our lexicon? Sometimes these guys just aren’t with it. I don’t know if you’re being willfully obtuse or that you’re just shocked because you’ve never heard it articulated consiously before (probably nobody thinks in their minds clearly “…that black person, and by that I mean that descendant of slaves…”, but in my experience most Americans differentiate between blacks and Africans as two entirely different groups.
How white people as a majority have treated minorities up to this point, and how they might act differently in the furture to break down the last vestiges of racism and do their part to achieve racial harmony? I suppose that’s two issues, actually. She did say part of the club’s goal would be to understand how their “whiteness” affects others, so I’d think it would be safe to say she’s wanting to use her club to touch on at least one of those issues.
You and Diogenes have made a specific factual assertion: that “African American” is commonly understood as a slavery-specific term. All I’m asking is that you to back up your assertion. Otherwise, you’re just talking out of your ass.
(And your example belies you: dictionaries are not repositaries of only ‘serious’ words – they are repositaries of commonly-used words and their popularly-understood meanings, even if those words are typically used in a joking manner. “Bling-bling” is part of the lexicon, even if its use is nonserious. Dictionaries reflect use; they don’t create use.)
Your experience disagrees with mine, and those of the eight people I just polled around the office (including three black people.)
Not a scientific survey to be sure, but I have never heard anyone claim that “African-American” refers only to slave-descendants until I read this thread.
If they want a club to discuss European history and culture, that’s fine. Wonderful, in fact, I’m all for it. But call it a History Club, or a Culture Club (don’t say it!). Calling it a Caucasian Club is a bad idea, for many reasons as listed previously.
European history isn’t just about lilly-white folks anyway. It’s also about Arabs and Turks and Mongols and many others as well.
The vast majority of individuals who fit this description are descended from slaves.
The nomenclature doesn’t really matter anyway. If you don’t like the term then lose it, I don’t care. What term would you use to specify those individual Americans who are descended from African slaves?
Whatever you call it, that is a very specific minority with a very specific history and very specific issues that is distinct from the broader category of those with dark skin.
Well, I just conducted a second survey, of the three black people I mentioned earlier. Of them, one is descended partly from slaves and accepts the term African-American as a valid description, one does not know his ancestry and accepts the term African American but prefers simply “black,” and one is descended from wealthy Nigerian immigrants from two generations back, and accepts the term African-American.
So, of these people, who is right and who is wrong, Diogenes, and what qualifies you to make the determination?