My parents remember when it was against the law for them to mix with whites.
Long past ain’t 50 years ago when we’re talking about the “short-comings” of millions of people, dear.
(It must be wonderful to be Jewish or Asian and never be constantly reminded of your group’s “short-comings”. Maybe in my next life I’ll come back as a Chinese Jew. Cuz the present gig is bumming the hell out of me.)
You superficial tit. Are you arguing, then, that if the Nazi’s (not invoking Godwin’s, as I’m not the first to bring up the comparison) called themselves the Snuggly Happy Bunnies, then the Holocaust woulda been a fine thing? Of course not.
In fact, I would venture to say that the very fact that you assume that a “Caucasian Club” is a bad idea is proof enough that one is necessary. I don’t know about you or Diogenes “The Universe Must Beat To My Drum Or Else” the Cynic, but I dislike the fact that I can’t say I’m proud of my deathly-pale skin color without drumming up images of white sheets and hoods. I dislike the fact that small-minded dickheads automatically assume that someone is a racist if they say that they enjoy being white.
No, there’s no “need” for a Caucasian club (as nebulous as the term “need” is… there’s no “need” for a African-American or Hispanic club, either). No, there’s no group that oppresses white people.
But you know what? I hate the fact that the term “White Pride” is associated with “Racist!” I hate the fact that the term “White Pride” is seen as a complete negative. And I hate the fact that any attempt to take back “White Pride” from the racist, idiotic, KKK, neo-Nazi skinhead fucks that have hijacked it is met with opposition from whiny, spineless dumbfucks.
A Caucasian club is “necessary” because one can’t create a Caucasian club without PC, elitist-wannabe spazznuts don’t want it to happen.
White Pride is fucking retarded.
There’s nothing you can do that won’t upset somebody (this board alone has told me that my mere existance offends plenty of people). Black Clubs get criticizm too, but they stick it out. And “deathly-pale” isn’t too proud of a way to describe anything.
I’m proud of the mole on my chin. Let’s start a Mole Club.
Fuck you and the strawman you rode in on. “Of course not,” indeed. However, if the Nazis had called themselves the Snuggly Happy Bunnies, and someone today wanted to start a “Snuggly Happy Bunny Club”, would that strike you as a reasonable thing to do?
And let’s turn that around: Are you suggesting that if someone today wanted to start a new Nazi party, but insisted that it had nothing to do with anti-semitism or world domination, they just liked the idea of national socialism—would that be okay?
Why do you enjoy being white? What’s so great about it? Personally, I’m proud of my Scottish heritage, I’m proud of a lot of the things that my country represents and has accomplished (though certainly not all)…I’m proud of a lot of stuff. But I’m pretty neutral on the fact that my skin is pale. It’s convenient, because it means I don’t have to deal with a lot of stuff I might otherwise have to, but it’s hardly a source of pride. (I’m certainly not ashamed of it either, I don’t suffer from “white guilt” or any such nonsense.)
Yeah, well, sucks to be you then. None of my doing though. I didn’t tell them to be assholes.
That’s your only criteria for what’s necessary? Because someone doesn’t want it to happen? You must be a ton of fun at parties.
There are many posts with the same point, I just picked this one to respond to. Since when did every minority-focused club become about fighting oppression? Remembering back to my college days, minority clubs were about getting together with like-minded people and socializing. There was little, if any, political overtone to the whole thing. Much as the Model Rail Road club or the Chess club were focused around hobbies and gathering people together with like interests, so the Latino Student Assoication would gather people together and explore a common interest, in their case Latino cultutre and history.
I’m a white male, but I am an American white male, I don’t know much about the culture of my European ancestors. As I have gotten older I have realized that I miss not having those traditions to relate to. To the extent that Latino Americans enjoy organizing social outings around a Latino theme, I might like to be able to go out for German night, or Scotish night or something along the same lines. When I was in college I used to go to events organized by the Asian and Latino student orgs often and everyone had a great time Salsa dancing or whatever. A group focused on European cultures certainly could appeal to many. I don’t think that it has to be about oppression or anything else political or controversial, it could simply be about exploring our roots.
Why is white pride retarded, yet black pride, latin pride, asian pride, gay pride or any other type of “pride” you care to name, not retarded? How is a double standard based entirely on race NOT racist?
I’ve never heard anyone talk about “Asian” pride, but Black, Latin and gay are not about skin color.
C’mon, of course its retarded. Aren’t you aware that every white person, myself included, since the dawn of time has existed solely for the purpose of oppressing other groups of people ?? Many are the days when I sit back and go over the list of thousands of people I’ve oppressed. Just the other day, a friend invited me over for dinner but i had to decline as I still hadn’t met my opression quota for the day. Although sometimes it bothers me that no white person has ever done anything else, such as writing a fine book, painting a lovely picture, or invented anything that’d make all of our lives easier. Ok, enough sarcasm.
Quit whining. Everyone is stereotyped and everyone DOES stereotype. Yes, that includes the seemingly innocent minorities. Case in point, this doesn’t happen every day, but often enough to mention : I pull up on my bike to a 7-11 to grab a soda. Mothers grab their childrens’ hands, nerdy people cringe, and fathers walk between me and their daughters. Because I have long hair and ride a Harley, I’m going to kidnap your children and sell them into prostitution, steal your lunch money, and impregnate your daughters. Pfff Some of your daughters look like you got them as a give away on Wild Kingdom and I wouldn’t touch 'em if you paid me <---- sorry, sarcasm once again. Do I care ? Nope , not even a little bit.
The point I’m looking to make is that all you people who cry bigot, racist,or descrimination at the drop of a hat need to look in the mirror. Everyone descriminates based on stereotypes to some degree. Some goofy girl wants a Caucasion Club and automaticly its a White Supremecy Club and a racist debate is sure to follow. Because anytime a few white people get together, you just KNOW they’re plotting the oppression of somebody.
Now give me your lunch money …
What, Asians can’t be proud of being Asian? =p
You didn’t answer either of my questions, btw.
And now I’ll ask another. How can you say with a straight face, that black pride is not at least partially about skin color, especially if you have the idea that white pride is about nothing BUT skin color??
It’s called black pride, after all. One would think if it had absolutely nothing to do with skin color, it would be called something else. Perhaps “Minority People Who, Because of Various Stupid and Vapid Prejudices Practiced By Members of the “Majority”, Are Still Not Treated As Equals In Some Places Pride” Though I can see how that might be tougher to fit on a T-Shirt or Baseball cap…
Black pride IS at least partially about being black…that’s why it’s called Black Pride. Latin Pride is about being Latin, Gay Pride is about being gay, Asian Pride is about being Asian (I don’t see why they can’t be proud of themselves too)…see how it works?
(My above post was for DtC, btw)
“Asian” pride is as meaningless as “White” pride. Asians encompass such a broad caregory of ethnicities and skin colors that it doesn’t really work as a racial descriptor. I also didn’t say anything about people having the right be proud of being Asian, I just said I had never heard of anyone who did.
And I did answer your question. black, gay and Latino groups are not “racial” groups. They are not defined by skin color. A “caucasian” group would be defined by skin color only and skin color alone is a stupid-ass thing to be proud of.
Ok, maybe I’m just being incredibly obtuse.
How are black and Latino groups not “racial” groups? How are they not (at least partially) defined by skin color?
[quote]
You superficial tit. Are you arguing, then, that if the Nazi’s (not invoking Godwin’s, as I’m not the first to bring up the comparison) called themselves the Snuggly Happy Bunnies, then the Holocaust woulda been a fine thing? Of course not.
[quote]
I think Dio the Cyn pretty much covered it, but imagine if someone today wanted to create a NAZI club that focused on merry-making and acceptance of all minorities and general happy things. You think they’d allow that club to happen?
“I don’t approve of A primarily because of it’s name” is not equivalent to “I would approve of A simply because it had a good name”.
No, DTC just won’t admit it because then he’d be forced to admit that he’s using race to determine what is and isn’t acceptable. I had hoped he might see this and address it, thus improving himself, but he refuses to so and so here he is, making blatently idiotic statements like “Black pride has nothing to do with color”. There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
There is no such thing as a Latin “race.” Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Columbians, Dominicans, et al come in all different colors. Sammy Sosa and Christina Aguilera are both “Latin.” Are they the same color?
Black American groups are typically composed of individuals who are descended from slaves. It is a specific minority which is distinct from simply all people with dark skin.
Then why not call it Descendent of Slavery Pride? Why use the color of skin as the specific qualfier of your group, if your group has nothing at all, whatsoever to do with the color of skin?
Oh, and for the record:
The US Census Boards seems to disagree with you. From http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/2001/raceqandas.html
Because the so-called “double standard” only exists because it’s the only possible way to level a playing field that is tilted so far in your favor that you can’t even recognize that it’s meant to be horizontal instead of damned near vertical.
Because everything in this society is built around extolling and lauding and kowtowing to the majority’s acheivements, the majority’s power, the majority’s money, the majority’s control and the majority’s essential majority status. The majority doesn’t need a special structure to feel pride in itself, the majority can walk outside and look at the buildings, the parks, the roadways, the people who sit in every legislative body, in every courthouse, in every governor’s mansion, and every major seat of power in this country and see their names, their ancestries, their reflections. The majority never has to wonder where they came from, the records are there and have never been destroyed.
The majority didn’t have their ancestors robbed of their origins, their language, their religion, the essence of their identity, and the majority does not now live with the legacy of being rootless, of their very place on the planet and in this society being the product of theivery of human lives.
The majority doesn’t have a month dedicated to its history, or special classes about its acheivements because every month is majority history month, every history class is majority history class. Every famous name that kids are forced to memorized and parrot back by rote with the dates and places of their famous doings belong to you.
Your pride is built into the infrastructure of this society. If you want to revel in your “white pride” all you have to do is open your eyes and look around you.
And for those of us who aren’t you, those of us who because of the color of our skin or the shape of our eyes or the language of our places of origins have been marginalized and who have been constantly made aware - implicitly and explicitly - that we are lesser entities in the society that you have built to your purposes and your ends, having a structure made for us and by us, for the purpose of helping us to remember and recognize that we are not now nor have we ever been lesser in our persons can be essential. Essential for education, essential for creation of a social network, essential for creating our own communities, essential for creating businesses, essential for carving out whatever space we can find for ourselves.
And if you can’t understand that, then I don’t know how to make it any more clear.
With regards to the original question, I think that it’s certainly possible that the girl’s intentions were pure, and that the club would have been harmless. But white clubs, white pride, and anything else involving the words “white” or “caucasian” are extremely loaded. They understandly bring up images of burning flags, etc. The onus is on the girl to go way out of her way to make clear that her proposed organization is no such thing, which, given that she chose to name it the “Caucasian club”, she did not do.
(Overall, I suspect that she was, as many others have posited, just being an ornery young person. If so, I hope she’ll actually think about this experience and the reactions, some of them totally over-the-top and unfair, that she’s gotten, as opposed to just taking away some simplistic “oh, those liberals… oh, us oppressed white folks…” message.)
On a different topic, someone asked several pages ago what issues there are that only white people have to deal with. In fact, I think there are such issues. In any interaction between a white person and a black person, the experience of each is unique. The white person doesn’t know what it’s like to be the black person. And the black person doesn’t know what it’s like to be the white person. (The difference is that the issues that black people have to deal with that are specific to being black are huge encompassing serious issues. The issues white people have to deal with that are specific to being white are, in comparison, trivial.)
I see no reason why it would be problematic to have an organization devoted to discussing such issues from the white perspective. But, as I said before, I wouldn’t blame people for assuming the worst about such an organization, even if it was intended in the most altruistic way possible. Nor would I be surprised if the organization attracted traditional White Supremacists.
Oh, and whoever it was that decided that the word “black” was offensive and should be copy-and-replaced with “African-American” made a colossal blunder, and muddied the crap out of the current, and many similar, discussions. Even if there is no single black race (and obviously there is no single black race, or white race, or Asian race, etc.) the word “black” still has meaning. It describes a broad set of physical characteristics. There is a large group of people in America who look black. (The fact that the borders of this set are poorly defined does not negate the set’s existence). There are issues, particularly dealing with the reactions of people who look at them and see them as black, that members of that group have to deal with in common.
Many of the people in that group share what is referred to as the African American culture. Some do not. That doesn’t mean that the word “black” has no meaning.