Hillary, please bow out.

The BBQ Pit
1

Looking at things from a high level down, it seems to me that Hillary is not the best choice for the Democratic nominee.

It’s great that enough people/states have been able to overcome the race issue that Obama faces, but there is still an issue with Hillary. Some people, unfortunately, feel that she, or any other woman are not capable of being the president of the most powerful (for the time being) nation in the world. Other nations do not treat women the same way we do here in the states (politically speaking of course). Some of them feel that women deserve fewer rights than men do.

I don’t dislike any of the candidates (of both parties) nearly as much as I HATE Bush. The simple fact that he cannot be re-elected, is a major source of joy for me. Fuck that dumbass.

McCain seems to be the de-facto ® nominee, Huckabee seems to like wasting money in order to prove a flaccid point. He and Nader need to either find a better way to get alternative votes to matter, or just quit being a vote stealer. Nader KNOWS he will not be elected, yet he seems to be fine with his campaign just draining votes from the Dems. Useless, also counterproductive.

Can Obama beat McCain? Sure. The Dems have a climactic advantage.

Can Hillary beat McCain? Possibly not. Misogynists nationwide will vote for the more liberal McCain than the female Clinton.

The time for change has come. If Hillary is elected and serves just one term, (unless my math is wrong) there will have been twenty four years that the US has been under the rule of only two families. That sounds much more like a monarchy than a democracy to me. Or, at least some sort of bastardization of a monarchy.

People of African decent have had a rough time in the US to put it mildly. The same goes for women. Treating African Americans as being inferior, seems to be something that is almost exclusively equated to the US.

I have nothing against a black man being president (hell, I already voted for Obama) or a female president. Some Democrats may even feel uncomfortable with my respect for McCain.

In a disgusting fashion, some republicans are voting for Hillary just because they’d rather see her up against McCain. I’d like to see Obama as President, followed by McCain and then Clinton. I just don’t feel that she will represent our country on a global level in the way that we need our newest leader to.

A female going up against a male (McCain) is going to be a challenge, especially against a decorated veteran. A female president on the world stage is a different story though. There are countries out there (some of which we are at war with) that deem women to be second class citizens. How would they view a female president?

Golda Meir and Margaret Thatcher were legendary female leaders of nations. Hillary Clinton can’t hold a candle to either of them.

Republicans would LOVE to see Hillary as the Democratic nominee, they’re scared of Obama. As a Democrat, I’m scared of Hillary. That dog won’t hunt.

2

To each his own.

3

That’s the idea.

4

I guess I can’t see the reasoning behind putting this in the Pit. If anything, it seems more suited for GD. I doubt anyone can reasonably flame you for having (and subsequently defending) your own views, and nothing in your OP was especially venomous.

5

I guess I’m expecting responses that either contain, or require responses, that may or may not contain profanity.

Nah, I really put this here because I know that many people are passionate about politics, and passions might flare. Also, I NEVER go into GD. People that see argumentation as recreation find themselves as far from me as I can get them.

6

Fair enough. :slight_smile:

7

The odds of McCain vs HRC or Obama only slightly favour Obama. Figure in that he won’t win FLA (he has snubbed them big time) in the General election, you then find out that although Obama is slightly more popular in a poll, he will lose in the Electoral College, just like Gore did. :frowning:

Racists* nationwide will vote for the more liberal McCain than the* black Obama.

I have no idea of why the bit about the same two families running things is supposed to make us hate Hillary. Bill was as different as any one can be than WB. And, if electing Hillary means 8 more years of Bill Clinton, I’d love that. Bill was the best president we have had in recent memory. Please gawd let us get 8 more years of Bill. pleaseohpleaseohplease.

The GOP has been running scared and running Hate attacks on Hillary for decades now. Rove and crew have a “boatload” of swiftboating all planned out for Obama. Hillary is swiftboat-proof.

True, Obama is by far the better public speaker and his fans are diehard fans. Neither or these make him a great leader.

8

First, I don’t “hate” Hillary, nor do I expect others to.

Second, there was nothing in your post that tells us why HRC is the best candidate.

9

I’m glad you brought this up, I’ve been meaning to. Of all the arguments against Hillary, and there are of course arguments against her, the “two families” crap really bugs me. She first of all has NOTHING to do with the policies of George Bush I and II. And frankly, if we were going to have the “2 families” argument, it should have been before the second Bush got elected.

Somehow tying her to Bush I and II is completely unfair. It is fair to tie her to Bill Clinton, but there is no way the records of Bush I and II should have ANY bearing on judging Hillary Clinton.

“2 families” is just a stupid, meaningless argument to make. Judge her on all the other shit available to judge her on. In fact, it got to the point on the FARK political threads, that as soon as I saw the words “same 2 families” I immediately dismissed everything that poster had to say.

10

Hillary set an important precedent for women who aspire to run for President in the future, whether or not she gets the nomination. Someday there will be a Chelsea Clinton ticket and the road for her will be that much easier thanks to her mom. I view this as an extremely positive thing; it’s essentially the foot-in-the-door technique, with Bill Clinton’s foot opening the door just enough for a woman, his wife, to run. It might have been a good long time before we saw a viable woman candidate had this not happened. This opens the door to more in the future. Hopefully they are not all Clintons :slight_smile:

11

I’ll address some specific points of the OP. Full disclosure, I support Obama, for now. I also think Bush has been less than an ideal president. But I’ve never understood the Hillary hate. It’s like the smear campaign against the Clintons in the 90s took root.

I don’t think he’s wasting time, in his mind. I think he’s angling for VP or another important position. He has solid support amongst the evangelicals.

I don’t understand how McCain can be viewed as liberal. He’s solidly conservative, by every measure. Of course the word “conservative” seems to be mutating lately.

This is something else I’ve seen a few people say. Clinton and Obama are so close to each other on just about every issue, it’s made their debates a bit laughable, as they argue over minutae. We know Obama is slightly to the left of the more centrist Clinton, but McCain is way, way out on the right. For me, if I had to pick the single most important issue in this campaign, it’d be this, above any other issue, period:

John Paul Stevens:
April 20, 1920

Ruth Bader Ginsberg:
March 15, 1933

Steven Breyer:
August 15, 1938

12

I agree with that, alterego. I know there’s certain percentage of misogynistic and/or racist troglodytes that will never vote for a woman or a black person for president, but I’ve been impressed that in this campaign how we have serious female and black candidates, and while it’s certainly noted, it’s not all OMG a woman/black’s running for president!!! Mainstream America has shown the capacity to accept this with aplomb, and I’m glad that day is finally here.

13

I think you are not getting why so many people dislike Hillary, myself included. It is not a general misogynistic revulsion toward women, it is her specifically.

Many conservative Pubs dislike her because they hate Bill and see this simply as another Clinton presidency. Democrats have a wider variety of reasons; for fucking up universal health care passage, for sticking with Bill (seemingly because of her own political ambitions) when he was shown to be a habitual philanderer; for carpetbagging her way into New York politics because that appeared to be a quicker route back to the WH than returning to Arkansas. I’m sure there are others as well; those are mine.

Like you, I despise Bush. Much as I dislike Hillary, if she becomes the Democratic nominee I will vote for her, as I see her as way better than McCain.

But I would prefer to cast my vote for Obama.

14

If he’s running for VP, he’s deluding himself. The Republicans aren’t going to pick a VP who will uselessly run up vote totals in guaranteed-red states while (at best) doing nothing for them in purple states.

15

I just wanted to echo those comments. You don’t have to be a misogynist to dislike someone with a vagina.

16

But it helps. :wink:

I’ll echo zuma’s point about the Supreme Court – that alone would make me vote for Hillary over McClain, even though her craptastic handling of her campaign has made her claims of day-one competence look absurd.

17

I didn’t know there are African Americans in other countries? :wink:

But I think South Africa also has its legacy of racism.

18

Hillary faces.

Sorry.

19

OMG, this could only be said with a straight face by a Hillary supporter.

20

:eek:

Medic! Another gallon of brain bleach – STAT!