we have just finished a brand new song… which is a reaction to people who seem to refuse to take our thing seriously ( for whatever reasons, e.g it’s hip-hop, we live in cornwall, they know us… whatever )
I don’t want to reveal how we feel about this track - - what I would like is some feedback from people who are actually into hip-hop… good or bad, as long as it is constructive…
I will warn their is bad language in the track… and a few lines people may find offensive - and I am willing to justify/explain anything if you want to argue about the lyrics…
this is not the FINAL mix - - but it’s close…
also I can’t deep link to it yet - so you’ll have to fish it off the page - - you want “Take Us Serious”…
Ahh, yes, I checked out your page a few days ago and listened to some tracks.
Ok, here’s the thing, I’m going to give you the honor of being completely honestly with you because I love and respect the fact that you’re making independent hip hop music (and trust me, I can relate), so please don’t be offended.
First off, if you’re going to make a statement as bold as “Take Us Serious” you have to come with some serious, hard-hitting shit. This song isn’t that good and I think you know it. I can hear it in your delivery.
Secondly, the beat is weak and almost distracting. It sounds like it was made on a $50 “My-First-Keyboard”.
Third, your rhymes sound forced. I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know. Work on it.
Lastly, it’s not catchy. “Take. Us. Serious.” is not melodic. It almost sounds like a Spinal-Tap-esque mockery of hip-hop. Maybe that’s what you were going for.
So…1 - work on your rhymes and flow, 2 - either get better software/hardware or get someone else to make your beats, and 3 - get a keyboard, or guitar or something and work on your melodies. Get one of those little “note-to-self” recorders and hum into it everytime you get a catchy tune in your head if you have to.
A+ for effort, but you wanted opinions and my opinion is that this track will accomplish the opposite of what you’re trying for. Work on it and let us know what you come up with!
Not what I was expecting - - but… exactly what I asked for…
thanks for your opinion… you are officially the first person to comment on our stuff.
however - - at the risk of sounding even lamer - - we personally feel this is the best song we’ve EVER made…
I’d be interested to hear your opinions on our other tracks…
also rhyme wise, again I felt personally that this was amongst my best rhymes to date - -
obviously I’m disappointed you don’t like it - and majorly pissed at your description of the beat - - but I asked for your thoughts - and respect it…
I need to check the link from home… maybe the mp3 isn’t as good quality as it should be…
is it the delivery or the content you find especially bad?
Before I begin: my credentials. Born and raised in Los Angeles, have lived in Oakland as an adult, serious hip-hop fan for 15 years.
Beat:
You listed Dre as an influence and it shows. This sounds a lot like the “Phone Tap” beat he did for the Firm. Perhaps you wanted your drums to sound clean and simple like Dre. But like the previous poster stated, they sound like they came straight off a Casio keyboard. They are cold and electronic and they lack any kind of warmth. This is why producers sample - not so they can “steal ideas” but so they can get real sounds with real depth and tone. You **can ** get away with electronic drum sounds, but only if the drums are much, much more interesting than that (I’m thinking of some Cash Money beats, for example). This beat is plodding and doesn’t change very much at all besides a couple of breaks. Simple beat + real sounds = okay. Complex beat + synthetic sounds = okay. Simple beat + synthetic sounds…not doing much for me. Go download “Phone Tap” if you need clarification. The drums sound huge, right? And the pattern seems simple, but it’s deceptively complex.
The strings in the background are fine, but are also a little plodding at times. The bassline is monotonous and also sounds synthetic. The guitar lick (I think it’s supposed to be a guitar, but I guess it could also be a harpsichord) is pretty catchy and has some potential. It’s what I like most about the song. But unfortunately, it also sounds synthetic and thin. There’s a reason these producers have thousands of dollars worth of equipment in their studios and if you’re serious about doing something with your music, you’re gonna have to upgrade at some point or get much more familiar with sampling (which usually requires thousands of dollars of records, but that’s another story).
Delivery:
MC #2 flows pretty well. He doesn’t pronounce his words clearly enough at times, but that’s what you sacrifice when you speed up your flow. MC #1 struggles to stay on-beat and seems to emphasize words in a stilted way. You generally want to put the emphasis on the final word of the line, to highlight the rhyme. A lot of times, MC #1 emphasizes an earlier word in the line and the rhyme comes out disjointed and not pleasing to the ear. Both need some work, but MC#2 is much better than #1.
Content:
I wasn’t quite clear on what you were trying to say. People don’t take you serious because you are white and from the UK and they can’t find your record in the stores? But you don’t really explain why you should be taken serious.
Bottom line:
You guys have been at it for 9 years, and I pray you’re not hoping to one day sign a record contract. That’s not going to happen. You should treat this as a fun hobby that you enjoy. You can make CDs and give them out to friends and family (although it doesn’t seem like those people are supporting you either). Have fun, make the music for yourself and your own enjoyment, and you’ll be fine. I hope I haven’t offended you and I hope this critique helps you to continue improving (feel free to ask for further clarification). Good luck!
One thing I forgot. At six minutes with a ridiculously slow fade-out, this song is way too long. Like I said, the beat is tinny, but it might go over better at 3 minutes instead of 6. Shorten your rhymes or throw out the communal third, perhaps? Less is more and fight the temptation to wear out something you’ve fallen in love with. Peace.
I would agree with that - Dre is certainly a strong influence… Although we didn’t set out to make this sound like Phone Tap… ( we have done this before however )
OK… now I’m looking at my Casio keyboard right now! (yes I do have one! ) - but not a single beat from this song comes from it - - in fact all the drum sounds are sampled… I’m just reviewing the mp3 from the web now - so I can hear what you guys have heard - as opposed to the master I’ve been listening to in my room…
I think it may be a level issue on the mix down - which obviously needs tweaking…
A lot of it is to do with the depth of reverb Dre uses - - no need to download “Phone Tap” - it’s one of Dre’s best beats -
The bassline is a synthetic bass… but thats the sound we wanted for the track - - so I’m not going to argue with your opinion… not that we have access to anything better at this stage…
This is the frustrating part - - as it IS a real guitar!! - I played it myself - I have been trying to give it a bit more depth - - it’s a little too loud on this version - I may need to increase the lower range on it…
Thanks for the comments on the delivery - - - these are exactly the things I need to hear - it’s all very good your mates telling you how good your stuff is - - or not saying anything - - but what we’ve been lacking is feed back from anyone who we feel knows what they are really talking about… I probably would have responded different if I was MC #1 though! -
I think the plan was that when people heard how “good” this was - - then they would… but I’m starting to panic now! LOL! - - I suppose what we really mean is - - recognise that we take our music serious - - that we are really trying to do something here - -
Why do you say that? Is it the obvious - that we are unmarketable - - or is it that you feel we’re not talented enough?
It has been very helpful - - the main problem we have had is that no-one has really told us what they like or dislike and why before - - obviously we do make music for own enjoyment - - but there is always that ambition - - that drive to actually be doing this for a living… I’m under no illusions that we are the best thing in the world… but maybe when it comes to hip-hop we may be the best thing in Cornwall… you should visit Cornwall it’s the California of England - - except for the flooding…
My last question would be have you listened to anything else on our page - - did this one sound better or no different - -
I’m really hoping it’s the quality of the stream you guys have thats degrading this… or maybe I need to spend another few hours tweaking levels…
oh yeah - - and the end - - with the extra music - - that was us being indulgent - you’re right - - and why not - - we’re our biggest fans and I personally haven’t heard a hip-hop song this year that I’ve wanted to listen to as much…
I forgot to mention that Organized Rhyme is the name of Tom Green’s old rap group. You might not be familiar with him, and for that, you are blessed. I guess the good news is that most of your problems seem to be with the recording process, which can be corrected. But the drums and the bassline - while adequately holding it down - are not *adding * anything to the song.
Let me be honest. You are approaching competent. Competent meaning that the artist has risen above the level of amateur, where even a non-fan of hip-hop could see their mistakes and weaknesses.
Let me say, rising to the level of competent as a producer/MC would be quite an achievement, considering the fact that you’re living in a cultural vacuum without any real peers or competition and you’re probably trying to learn production/recording techniques over the internet (let’s not even mention your partner in rhyme). That’s something to be proud of.
Personally, I’m a scratch DJ. I’ve practiced almost daily for 5 years. I’ve passed competent and moved on to decent, only because scratching is relatively easier than producing. I can wow my friends and could probably DJ for a local group (or a famous rap/rock group if I grew up with them) if that is what I aspired to do. I’m in the top 5% of scratch DJs in the world.
But that doesn’t mean I’m anywhere near oustanding, or even good. And I won’t be - those guys practice 8 hours a day for 10+ years. And I’m not trying to shit on your dreams or anything, but I think we’re in the same boat. People who make albums and get famous aren’t merely competent. They’re incredible, they stick out, they do a show with 10 other groups and they look twice as good as any of them. You might be the best rappers in your town, or even region. But is that good enough to compete with the best rappers in the UK and get signed to a label? My advice? Plan on playing some house parties, maybe opening for more famous acts, have fun and get laid. That’s really what it’s about, right?
I think the beat is terrible. I don’t want to be an ass, but it really does sound like a bad keyboard preset, a white 50-ish suit’s idea of what “the rap music” sounds like. If I said it sounded like a Triton preset, that would be too flattering. Others have made great suggestions on how to improve this - don’t be afraid to seek an outside producer. Even if you want to keep the “cartoon hop” keyboard sound, an outside producer may be able to give you a much higher quality version of that.
The real problem with the whole thing is that you sound like you’re emulating the most superficial aspects of the mainstream american hip hop that you like - do you guys have access to some of the killer, more creative hip hop that’s currently being done by labels like Anticon, Stones Throw, Quannum, Def Jux, etc? The reason people take those guys seriously is because they sound honest and original - if they’re not “street” (as in the case of the anticon guys), they don’t try to front like they are, and instead rap about the existential ennui of their suburban upbringings. It seems like you guys have to really figure out what you really are, and then be that, instead of trying to be this sort of “American Gangsta” figure that’s really outdated and a bit cheesy.
Glad you asked. Don’t Mean a Thing is a MUCH better song. It’s not perfect but it’s infinitely better than Take Us Serious. I can’t speak much for the content because a lot of times I couldn’t make out exactly what you were saying. I would recommend turning the vocals up on that track a bit.
Now my opinions on it…MC1 has a very good voice but tries to cram an extra syllable in here and there. He needs to work on his flow. MC2 has a really good flow but he often sounds out of breath and kind of like he’s putting on too much of a fake accent. He needs to work on his voice. I don’t know which one is you so that’s an unbiased account.
Don’t take this as a bashing of your track. I like the song a lot. It is by far your best song and with a little work it could sound very professional. I’m much more inclined to “take you serious” when listening to a good track like this than when listening to you literally begging me to do so on a mediocre track.
As a final note, may I just suggest that you stop worrying how people receive you? Put your heart and a shitload of hard work into your music and people will take you seriously. I promise, you won’t have to ask :).
I don’t really like “Take Us Serious”. A song that begs that almost makes people do the opposite, you know? It’s Spinal Tap-ish, like some others said.
“Don’t Mean A Thing” is good, and I love “Good Feel”. “Good Feel” is just awesome… makes me wanna bounce. I really like the beat, too, except for the… hmm… third sound? The best way I know how to describe it is like this – when you start the chorus “Have you ever had a good feel like this”, count to three with the beats. That sound throws the song off, IMO. Otherwise, I really, really like it. I’ve listened to it five times now. The flow and lyrics, IMO, are excellent and I think the best out of all the tracks you have listed. It catches the hip-hop spirit really well.
hey… I wrote out a huge response just before the last one from Cisco… and the evil bastard that is the internet and computers in general ate it!!!
so the general consensus is that “Take Us Serious” is a turkey - - at least from the 4 point of views here… ( I’m secretly hoping people are using the “if you don’t like our service tell us, if you do tell your friends” regime! but somehow doubt it )
I’m glad that you are liking “Don’t Mean A Thing” and “Good Feel” - - although suprised that some of the technical flaws you mentioned about “TUS” have not been applied here too…
We made these two tracks in 2001… amongst the first we did using the computer and digital recording… we’ve upgraded mics and software twice since then… so it is kind of frustrating that in your eyes at least we have made a step backwards…
we intend to re-do the music to these two tracks so that we can perform them live… ( same sounds just using the new software which is supposed to increase the production… ) maybe we’ll record new versions and put them up here too…
“Don’t Mean A Thing” was in our opinions our best track before this… and I felt lyrically I was happier with my verses on TUS… I hear your comment on the out of breath thing… that one is me… we both suffer that problem from time to time… it’s just that back then, we tended to be happier with it earlier - - now we go back and re-do stuff again, and again and again… I only re-recorded my TUS verse on Thursday night… so I am inclined to re-record it… but with such negative feedback I wonder if we should leave that one…
How did you feel about “We Back” - or “I Dont Wanna” these were all made this year - - the version of “I Dont Wanna” is a rougher mix than the final and the verses were re-recorded after too…
I can’t quite think what the “third” sound in Good Feel is… but I’ll check it out…
I’m glad you like some of our stuff… it’s cheered me up a bit…
I was ready to give up hip-hop and go into Pop! LOL!
feel free to visit our hompage and put some input to the forum on there…
As a side note - - and a big slice of Irony pie too…
Cisco you say about putting effort in and not caring… which is what we have been doing… but, the problem we had, which prompted us to write the track was that the people who are supposed to be helping us promote - - e.g. people we know ( not going to use the word friends - because clearly they’re not ) just seem to dismiss us as mucking around before they even listen - - let alone help to push us to other people…
so in a way this track was aimed at the people who are never going to listen to it… because if you are listening to our other stuff… then the message is wasted on you…
thanks for all the feedback guys - - it had been helpful - -and at least we have some idea of the direction we should be taking if we are to become more succesful…
was there anything on there you thought was particularly bad?? worse than TUS
Okay, I think I can pinpoint the sound better [and excuse my ignorance of the right terms]. Right after the girl says “Drop the cryptic, you’re scaring me” [I lovelovelove that part, by the way] it’s the first beat after that. That sound is what I’m referring to.
I’m going to listen to “I Don’t Wanna” again right now.
I think the sound is the early clap - - not sure if there is a correct term for it - - I quite like that - -for me it makes the beat interesting – but then I wouldn’t have left it if I didn’t like it - - I still haven’t checked though! SLACK
the girl by the way - - and maybe I should not reveal this… oh what the heck - - we never sold any significant copies - and I’m sure it’s too short to contravene copyright laws - - it’s Sarah Michelle Gellar from an episode of Buffy…
I wont reveal what episode it’s from as it may make a good quiz test for all the Buffy fans on the board - - I may post it as a quiz - - see if anyone can pinpoint the exact episode and who she says it to…
needless to say when watching the episode for the first time ( not long after I decided to call myself cryptic actually ) I wound back the tape and sampled it onto mini-disc straight away - - it was a year later that I found a place to put it…
glad you liked it…
by the way - - for the rest once clu the other half of organized rhyme comes back from London - I’ll present this stuff to him and we’ll work on TUS and re-post it…
just to see if you feel we’ve improved it…
some of the criticism we see as opinion ( on the tune, lyrics etc. etc. ) and as we are happy with that for this particular track these have not been changed…
also nothing has been added or taken away…
what we have done is adjusted some levels on vocals, and changed the production on the beats and some other parts…
it probably wont be to everyones liking, but we feel we have improved in these areas.
and I personally haven’t heard a hip-hop song this year that I’ve wanted to listen to as much…
Others have made great suggestions on how to improve this - don’t be afraid to seek an outside producer. Even if you want to keep the “cartoon hop” keyboard sound, an outside producer may be able to give you a much higher quality version of that.