Hip-hop SUCKS

[Grey_area]

In the first song I posted, the rapper was actually rapping (Lyrics Born for anyone that’s curious). In my attempt to find something accessible I guess I chose a song that was more funky and sing-songy, but that was in fact a rap song. There are MANY other great hip hop songs out there but I don’t think the nay-sayers out there are really giving them a fair chance and haven’t learned to really appreciate the genre yet. For those that haven’t grown up with it (like myself) it’s more of an acquired taste I guess. I had the same criticisms that many here about hip hop (it’s repetitive, it’s some guy talking) before I got into it. But after a while you start appreciating the clever rhymes and wordplay, good beats and the rhythm in the rapping (or talking if you want) that you probably haven’t gotten accustomed to yet.

One easy way I think to distinguish hip hop from other genres is to listen to the beat. If you listen to the Quannum and the DJ Shadow song I posted you’ll notice they have the same beat. That’s the hip hop beat. There are slight variations of course but to many fans it’s instantly recognizable.

[Miller]

Hey, r4nd0m, after clicking on your links, I just bought a DJ Shadow album. Thanks! This is good stuff!

[ultrafilter]

Although it hasn’t come up in a while, I’d like to offer up this as proof that the instrumental work in hip-hop can stand out at times.

[Grey_area]

@Miller

Hey, r4nd0m, after clicking on your links, I just bought a DJ Shadow album. Thanks! This is good stuff!

Glad to help. You should also check out UNKLE’s “Psyence Fiction”, where DJ Shadow collaborated with all sorts of names in the music industry including Thom Yorke (of Radiohead) and Richard Ashcroft (of the now defunct the Verve). I love that album so much. An experimental hip hop classic.

[Hodge]

@r4nd0mNumb3rs

Glad to help. You should also check out UNKLE’s “Psyence Fiction”, where DJ Shadow collaborated with all sorts of names in the music industry including Thom Yorke (of Radiohead) and Richard Ashcroft (of the now defunct the Verve). I love that album so much. An experimental hip hop classic.

No kidding. It’s a very strange and compelling CD. The video for Rabbit in your Headlights is one of the most disturbing I’ve ever seen.

[woodstockbirdybird]

@r4nd0mNumb3rs

Glad to help. You should also check out UNKLE’s “Psyence Fiction”, where DJ Shadow collaborated with all sorts of names in the music industry including Thom Yorke (of Radiohead) and Richard Ashcroft (of the now defunct the Verve). I love that album so much. An experimental hip hop classic.

Thanks for the recommendation. I’m a big DJ Shadow (or, at the very least, Endtroducing…) /experimental hip hop fan, and was unaware of this.

[Cisco]

As long as we’re on a board dedicated to fighting ignorance, I feel like I should clear a few things up.

It’s hilarious to hear people argue “I like hip-hop, but rap sucks” or vice versa. As people are finally starting to touch on on the 5th page of this thread, rap (a style of music) is merely an element of hip hop (a sub-culture.)

The 5 Elements of Hip Hop are:

1. DJing
2. MCing (rapping)
3. Breaking (break-dancing - this one is a little ahem - dated.)
4. Graffiti Art
5. Street knowledge

So, while saying hip hop music sucks would accurately describe your disdain for rap, saying hip hop sucks is entirely different beast all together. It’d be like if you hated Camaros and went around saying Chevrolet sucks.

Now that we’ve got that cleared up . . .

I’m a lifelong fan of rap, it’s probably my single favorite form of music, or at least tied for first with one of the many other forms of music I like, and I’ll freely admit that 90% of it sucks. On top of that I’ll go another step and say that 99% of the rap you hear on the radio sucks. Whenever I accidentally walk past a television tuned to MTV and see a bunch of idiots line-dancing in diamond-trimmed warm-up suits, rolling their forearms around and leaning from side-to-side, chanting some indecipherable string of words they hope to make the next big catchphrase out of - I want to puke.

Rap is, unfortunately, an extreme example of a genre where the popular stuff is by far the worst, but it surely isn’t unique in that sense. I believe someone once told Robert Heinlein that (paraphrased) “Ninety percent of science fiction is junk,” to which he replied, “Ninety percent of all art is junk.” It’s true; some of us are just more or less discerning than others.

A final note on samples and the artistic merits of the beats behind the words: Samples make up such a small portion of rap music that it’s laughable to hear someone try to argue that they discredit the genre as a whole. Puff Daddy had a few hits in the ‘90s that borrowed so heavily from older songs - always with the original artists’ consent and even support, to my knowledge - that they could almost be called cover songs (something that never happens in rock, country, folk, etc. :rolleyes: ) and people who already disliked rap used that as a soap-box from which to cry foul on an entire form of music.

And it takes no talent to make beats? Oh, really? Go ahead, give it a shot. That’s all I’m going to say about that. Try it or shut up.

[pulykamell]

@r4nd0mNumb3rs

That’s the hip hop beat.

Here’s a great documentary about the “Amen Break,” perhaps the most important break beat in hip-hop and, well, popular music in general.

[WOOKINPANUB]

So… to sum up these five pages of stellar conversation, the real issue here is the OP’s phraseology.

[HMS_Irruncible]

There’s a small number of good hip-hop acts out there… enough that when the local college rag gushes about the "innovative, reflective fresh stylings of (whoever) I’ll give it a listen because it might be good. But 99% of the time it turns out to be the same old bling, bitches, niggas, ho’s, and vague threats as to what the artist will do if he gets dissed, crossed, fronted, etc. We heard it all in 1985, quit wasting our time. Where are the De La Soul, Arrested Development, and Digable Planets of yesteryear?

That being said, rock is not much better, I just don’t like people treating trash like it’s some kind of genius out of some kind of political posturing.

[tomndebb]

@Cisco

I believe someone once told Robert Heinlein that (paraphrased) “Ninety percent of science fiction is junk,” to which he replied, “Ninety percent of all art is junk.” It’s true; some of us are just more or less discerning than others.

As noted on the first page of this thread, I’ll just put you down in the “too young” group. (Although you do get points for at least knowing the basic outline and correct literary genre that inspired Sturgeon’s Law (or Revelation).

[Cisco]

@tomndebb

As noted on the first page of this thread, I’ll just put you down in the “too young” group. (Although you do get points for at least knowing the basic outline and correct literary genre that inspired Sturgeon’s Law (or Revelation).

Ah, so I got the author wrong but I was surprisingly close on the actual body of the law. I’m not afraid of letting my age be known here, as I’m sure I’ve said it before: I’m 25.

[shefDave]

Where are the De La Soul, Arrested Development, and Digable Planets of yesteryear?

You mean apart from The Roots, Jurassic 5, Blackalicious, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Common, Kanye West, Outkast, Killer Mike, Gza, Jin, Deltron 3030, Last Emperor, Pharoahe Monch and Aesop Rock to throw out just a few examples of today’s hip hop artists who aren’t just “my bitch, my hoe, my hoe, my bitch, bitch, bitch”?

Don’t get me wrong, I consider the Mid-90s to be the ‘Golden Era’ of Hip Hop as much as the next person, but to pretend there’s nothing but ‘gangsta shit’ around these days is demonstrably false.

[Fred_D]

I’m a lifelong fan of rap, it’s probably my single favorite form of music, or at least tied for first with one of the many other forms of music I like, and I’ll freely admit that 90% of it sucks. On top of that I’ll go another step and say that 99% of the rap you hear on the radio sucks. Whenever I accidentally walk past a television tuned to MTV and see a bunch of idiots line-dancing in diamond-trimmed warm-up suits, rolling their forearms around and leaning from side-to-side, chanting some indecipherable string of words they hope to make the next big catchphrase out of - I want to puke.

Rap is, unfortunately, an extreme example of a genre where the popular stuff is by far the worst.

I really, really wish people would stop saying this because it really isn’t true. Yeah, I love Def Jux as much as the next man, but a lot of hip-hop at the top of the charts is still really good. Jay-Z, Kanye, Ludacris, Timbaland (as a producer, not a rapper), the Neptunes (as producers, not as rappers/hook-singers – eat it, Pharrel) – in fact, I’d be interested in hearing who these shitty rappers and producers are that are fucking up the charts. This thread has seen a lot of dumping on shitty rock acts like Nickelback, but aside from critical punching bag P. Diddy I’ve yet to see similarly shitty rappers or producers called out.

[Cisco]

@Fred D

I really, really wish people would stop saying this because it really isn’t true. Yeah, I love Def Jux as much as the next man, but a lot of hip-hop at the top of the charts is still really good. Jay-Z, Kanye, Ludacris, Timbaland (as a producer, not a rapper), the Neptunes (as producers, not as rappers/hook-singers – eat it, Pharrel) – in fact, I’d be interested in hearing who these shitty rappers and producers are that are fucking up the charts. This thread has seen a lot of dumping on shitty rock acts like Nickelback, but aside from critical punching bag P. Diddy I’ve yet to see similarly shitty rappers or producers called out.

I don’t care for Kanye at all. I haven’t heard enough of his stuff to give a well thought-out critical evaluation, but I’ve heard enough to know I don’t like him.

Ludacris is very overrated. His rhymes have way too many pop culture references for my taste. I consider him a lazy rhymer. Couple of his songs are funny, though, I’ll give him that.

I didn’t know Tim was still at the top of the charts. He did some stuff in the '90s that I kind of liked, but I can’t really comment on anything he’s doing now because I’m not aware of it.

I didn’t know Jay-Z was still at the top of the charts.

I don’t care much for the Neptunes.

Rappers “fucking up the charts” (your words, not mine):

-Lil Jon (in fact, anyone with the name “Lil”)
-Ja Rule
-The Ying Yang Twins
-Anyone crunk
-Chingy
-Nelly
-Ludacris
-Anyone signed to Cash Money or No Limit Records
-Anyone whose video is a vehicle to show off their cars, clothes, and jewelry
-The Black Eyed Peas (I saw these guys years ago and they were GREAT. I talked to them after the show and they were really friendly and eager to meet their fans. I wonder how they feel about Fergie.)
Who else is charting these days? I honestly don’t know. I know when I happen to be around a tv or radio playing current popular rap it’s a cringe-fest.

[HMS_Irruncible]

@shefDave

You mean apart from The Roots, Jurassic 5, Blackalicious, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Common, Kanye West, Outkast, Killer Mike, Gza, Jin, Deltron 3030, Last Emperor, Pharoahe Monch and Aesop Rock to throw out just a few examples of today’s hip hop artists who aren’t just “my bitch, my hoe, my hoe, my bitch, bitch, bitch”?

I’ll give you The Roots and J5 for style, and the most of the rest of them just for not being in the “bitches and ho’s category” (generally). I haven’t listened to some of them; I stopped taking recommendations of college DJ’s on hip-hop after being disappointed too many times. But I’ll check out those names.

Don’t get me wrong, I consider the Mid-90s to be the ‘Golden Era’ of Hip Hop as much as the next person, but to pretend there’s nothing but ‘gangsta shit’ around these days is demonstrably false.

To be precise, I did not say there’s “nothing but gangsta shit”, I said that 99% of it is like that. Obviously that is a contrived figure and probably lacks some precision, but I believe it to be accurate if a little low.