You know, we’ve been trying to tell you the same thing for months and months now, H4E.
None of us has a direct line to God, and none of us knows, for sure, what he considers to be sin.
That includes you.
Here’s one with an even higher view count.
It’s a lot more fun to read, too.
Well, excuse me, but I believe He does mention some of them in His word, so yes, we can be sure of some of the things He considers sin. Of course they can be ignored or explained away, etc…by any of us who don’t like what it says.
Or those who just plain don’t BELIEVE it is God’s Word.
I completely agree. But (and this has been our ongoing discussion for several months) it’s interesting to note that much of what Jesus had to say was not directed against “Thou shalt not do that” type sins, but against the judgmentalism often implicit in the reportage of His commandments to others – which is generally not directed at one’s own sins but at those of others.
Second, it’s the whole of Scripture that makes clear what He means. Anyone attempting to suggest that you or I are sinning by eating ham or porkchops because it’s prohibited in the Jewish dietary law will come up against the account in Acts that lifts the applicability of kashruth to Christians. It might be interesting sometime to get into a discussion of what He has to say about sex, and where and how it applies to whom. But, I think, not here and now; too many feelings are too tender at this point to make it profitable for anyone.
Like, say, what you did with the divorce and remarriage prohibitions?
And, we’re back to the beginning of the thread again. World without end, hallelujah, chunky peanut butter.
Slam dunk! MrVisible. That’s a wrap.
“Will the circle be unbroken, bye and bye, Lord, bye and bye?” 
MrVisible: It also brings us back to the second posting in the “Untruthful Accusations” thread:
Poly: Silly spelling question for you, since I’ve no idea which is the correct spelling–is it “bye and bye, Lord, bye and bye” or is it “by and by, Lord, by and by?”
The latter’s probably right, since I first typed it and then changed it and you brought up the question.
Any experts on old religious folk music out there with the SD on this?
I hope soon enough it’ll be “bye bye to this thread!”
Kill it!
Put it out of its misery.
and have a nice day
Well, before this thread is put out of its misery, I want to urge H4E to give deep and serious consideration to the effect her “witnessing” is having here. She has brought noone closer to God, she has not caused anyone to consider their relationship to God–rather, she has sown dissension and hatred where she ought to present love and compassion. And, please, spare us the “real love means I get to tell gay people they are sinners living in sin with a side of grated sin and basted in sin sauce.”
Your job is to tell people that God loves them and wants the best for them. It’s OK to say that you think gay sex is sin (of course, it would be awesome if you understood that homosexual love is as complex and multifaceted as hetero love, but one day at a time…baby steps…baby steps), but it is more important for you to emphasize that is only your interpretation of Scripture.
If you continue to say that God rigidly enforces the laws that don’t inconvenience you, but He gives lots of wiggle room to the laws that might cause you some bother , we’re going to laugh at you. Well, I will, anyway; I don’t know about other people (a phrase you may wish to remember.)
gobear: Your last post appears to have a fallacy in its grouding: H4E does not have her own interpretation of scripture.
& before H4E decides to jump in here and say, “See! I’m not making this stuff up!” I must say that by “does not have her own interpretation” I mean: “She’s only parrotting what some other bigot has to say.”
Interesting you should mention that. One of my favorite essays is “Homosexuality and the Bible” by Walter Wink. In it, he discusses some other sins specifically mentioned in the Bible that we have already ignored or explained away - including Christians. He lists them as such:
[list=1][li]No sex during the 7 days of menstration (Lev. 18:19; 15:19-24). Punishment was harsh (kareth, Lev. 18:29, a term referring to execution by stoning, burning, strangling, or to flogging or expulsion; Lev. 15:24 omits this penalty).[/li]
[li]The punishment for adultery was death by stoning for both the man and the woman (Deut. 22:22), but only the marital status of the woman is what counts. Non-virginal brides are stoned to death (Deut. 22:13-21) (again, men don’t matter).[/li]
[li]Nudity bad (2 Sam. 6:20; 10:4; Isa. 20:2-4; 47:3).[/li]
[li]Polygamy and concubinage were regular Biblical practices.[/li]
[li]A widow with no children must have sex with each of his brothers until she had a son, and Jesus mentions this without criticism (Mark 12:18-27 par.).[/li]
[li]Sex between unmarried straight people is never prohibited as long as the woman is not a virgin (and therefore worth more). Conversely, some marriages required proof of fertility - she must get pregnant first.[/li]
[li]Biblical practice is not to mention sex or sexual organs (“He knew her,” using “foot” and “thigh”).[/li]
[li]Semen and menstrual blood rendered all who touched them unclean (Lev. 15:16-24). Intercourse rendered one unclean until sundown; menstruation rendered the woman unclean for seven days.[/li]
[li]Patriarchy is inherent in the Bible - men maintained property rights over women. Prostitution was used to safeguard unmarried women’s virginity (Gen. 38:12-19; Josh. 2:1-7). And the prostitute was a sinner, but not the man that visits her. Even Paul can’t lump that in with the sin of adultery.[/li]
[li]You must only marry within the twelve tribes of Isreal.[/li]
[li]Moses may have allowed for divorce (Deut. 24:1-4), but Jesus didn’t (Mark 10:1-12; Matt. 19:9 softens his severity). (I think we covered this one, n’est-ce pas?)[/li]
One thing he says here that I find interesting:
{Emphasis mine}
[li]Celibacy is considered abnormal (1 Tim. 4:1-3 calls compulsory celibacy a heresy), but it is mandatory for priests and nuns (not to mention homosexuals).[/li]
[li]“If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, you shall cut off her hand; show no pity” (Deut. 25:11f.).[/li]
[li]Slavery is regarded as normal and is nowhere specifically condemned. Female sex slavery (in various forms) was even permitted by 2 Sam. 5:13, Judges 19-21 and Num. 31:18. These passages were used by the pro-slavery front in Colonial times to justify their actions.[/list=1][/li]
So what do you think, His? Selective memory by Christianity, or growth and understanding as we learn about our world and God?
Wink wraps it up nicely by saying that Jesus did not have a sex ethic - he had a love ethic. Try to remember that.
Esprix
You can’t know this for sure; in fact, at least one poster has stated that H4E has influenced her thinking.
Could you make it a Chicken Caesar wrap? Thanks.
You want fries with that?
YES!!!
That’ll be $6.98. Please pull up to the window.