HIV+ question

I realize it’s hard to generalize when you consider the number of parameters that can vary, but I was wondering what the current take is on the expected continued lifespan of a person who is HIV+ but not sick these days.

I do have a friend who is + and has been for at least four years now - I spent Christmas day with him and he’s healthy as can be. I know other people who are over two years since testing positive and are OK, including a couple of guys that are, well, just plain ol’ fuckups who are not very good at doing what the doc tells’em to do.

OTOH, several years ago I had two friends die within a year, i.e., they developed AIDS very quickly.

The reason this came up is that someone close to me had serious need of a transfusion but absolutely refused to be transfused, for fear of contracting HIV or hepatitis. My argument to her (she yielded, she was on her third transfusion when I left the hospital this afternoon) was that these days a person identified early as being HIV+ can live 10 years or so, and dying of AIDS 10 years from now beats dying this afternoon or even this week. I later told her doctor what I’d said and he said, “Wish I’d thought of that.” BTW, I didn’t convince her, one of her friends did.

So, what’s the scoop? Was I really way off base?

It’s a bit of a crap shoot…

IF you (hypothetical “you” here) are infected by a virus strain which has already mutated to become resistant to several of the current anti-retroviral agents, your life expectancy wouldn’t be too much better than the 5-10 year average just before AZT first became available.

If you, for one reason or another, cannot tolerate the most effective meds, you may also have relatively fast progression of immunodeficiency. While treatment strategies for opportunistic infections have improved over the years, these are delaying tactics. Ultimately, the HIV infection will win.

No one knows how long people can maintain low or very low viral titers on anti-retroviral agents. We hope that new drugs are discovered faster than new resistance emerges. But that is asking a lot.

HIV+ individuals are starting families, hoping against hope that they will not infect their babies(the drugs really do reduce this risk), and that they will live to see their kids grow up.

I would not want to be HIV+. But I can think of several other medical conditions I would want less.


Sue from El Paso

Experience is what you get when you didn’t get what you wanted.

the thing that struck me while reading this was that the friend was afraid of contracting HIV or hepatitis.

they do test blood for that you know. at least that’s what i’ve always heard. sure people got HIV in the early days before they tested for it…but isn’t it pretty safe now?

Blood donations are tested for HIV, Hepatitis, and other disease indicators like ALT.

Plus, every donor is screened with a battery of questions, quite personal. ([For men] “Have you even once, since 1977, had sex with another man?”, “Have you, in the last 12 months, had sex with someone who has had sex for drugs or money?”)

Finally, before donating, they give you two barcode stickers, one for yes and one for no. They leave you alone, and if you didn’t (or couldn’t) answer a question correctly, or you think your blood is otherwise not suitable, you place the “no” sticker on your blood collection paraphenalia. (Perhaps your family went en masse to donate blood for a family friend, but you hadn’t come out of the closet. This lets you disallow your blood for transfusion use discreteley. [They may have some other use for your blood, or they may simply destroy it.])

Since the practice of giving money for drugs has been abolished, AFAIK, donors for the most part have given blood altruistically.


I looked in the mirror today/My eyes just didn’t seem so bright
I’ve lost a few more hairs/I think I’m going bald - Rush

ARGH.

I meant “giving money for blood” in my last post. :rolleyes:


I looked in the mirror today/My eyes just didn’t seem so bright
I’ve lost a few more hairs/I think I’m going bald - Rush

Since HIV has been with us now for 30+ years, shouldn’t we start to see people who are immune to it? Most diseases follow a course of being very virulent at first (like measles or chicken pox millenia ago) then as the host population develops antibodies, become less deadly. (Hardly anybody dies of mumps today).
When do epidemiologists expect AIDS/HIV to start being less deadly?

Here’s what I understand:

There seems to be a wide variation from time of HIV infection to the time symptoms start showing.

Look at Magic Johnson, for example. He was diagnosed HIV+ in 1991. He still looks pretty healthy to me.

They have some better ideas on life span as it relates to once symptoms start showing. Although, I have no idea what it is.

This is a little different, but I had the same encounter with dealing with an infected cat.

Cats can get an immunodeficiency virus, that attacks them pretty much the same as AIDS. Once symptoms start showing, the kitty goes downhill faster and faster–but, it may be years and years before that happens, or it may happen in weeks.

I get the same idea about HIV, that it sometimes takes many years before it starts showing symptoms.

I look at it as three stages, although I don’t know how the medical types do it:

Point of infection
Time symptoms start showing
Time it’s considered AIDS (I think that you have to have a certain number of symptoms before it’s considered AIDS)
Time of death.

I think info exists on the second two time frames. It’s the first that’s a wild card.

I’ve always been interested in this question, myself, so anyone with any info–feel free to set me straight.

I have a friend who lives in the Suburbs of San Francisco who has full blown AIDS and has had it for about the last 20 years. He doesn’t take any medication for several reasons (they are expensive and he has no health insurance plus they make him feel bad). I know his case is atypical becuase unmedicated people usually die within 10 years from opportunistic infections. Typically someone is considered to have AIDS as opposed to HIV when the opportunistic infections start occuring regularly within their bodies.

The current ideas of survival amongst those with HIV who are medicated on the coctail or whatever the current meds are is “an average lifespan” (minus a few years because the medicine that they are taking is caustic). A really good friend in Texas has been positive for about 6 years now but since the coctail he has had no discernable viral infection at all. As I said earlier, the doctors tell him that he can plan to live out a relatively normal life but he can’t ever stop taking his medicine because they fear that the virus will come back if he does. When I was doing volunteer work at an AIDS hospice this wasn’t the case because the coctail had just come out and they were not sure about its effectiveness.

I can answer a lot of questions regarding HIV if anyone has anymore as can most of the other gay people on the board.

HUGS!
Sqrl


Gasoline: As an accompaniement to cereal it made a refreshing change. Glen Baxter

I would not want to be HIV+. But I can think of several other medical conditions I would want less.
Well said Sue
Since the practice of giving money for drugs has been abolished,
I must have missed 60 Minutes :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:
Since HIV has been with us now for 30+ years, shouldn’t we start to see people who are immune to it?
Not necessarily, rabies and polio are both viral killers been with us for thousands of years with no sign of letting up. True we have vaccinations for them, but they are still devastating to the unprotected human.
What I’d like to know, and maybe Sue or Tubadiva can tell me is what happened to that transport enzyme they were looking into a few years ago? I remember reading, in a medical or nursing journal, that they had identified an enzyme deficiency in individuals known to have had repeated exposure without converting to HIV +. They believed that the enzyme was being used by the virus for transport across the cell membrane. Theoretically, an enzyme inhibiting drug might be able to halt the progression of the disease and our own immune system might then be able to beat it. Probably would’ve heard by now if they hadn’t run into a brick wall, but I’m curious.

Larry,RN

Most of the current research I’m aware of is looking at inhibiting the HIV protease enzyme, the structure of which is pretty well known (it’s shaped like a big… well, big on a molecular scale… donut). I don’t think this is what you’re talking about, though.

There are some people who are immune to some strains of HIV, I want to say that prostitutes in Kenya have been repeatedly exposed but remain uninfected. It also needs to be made clear that there are several (at least 8) different versions of HIV.

Also, I assume that in you meant Small Pox and not Chicken Pox.

Actually, small pox was eradicated by an aggresive vaccination program, to the best of my knowledge there was no decrease in virulence,
Larry

PBS did a special on this. One of gents was exposed in 1978 (or76) anyway he is still well alive and even had HIV negative kids. He takes no meds

Also they have another that was immune to AIDS. Basically they said he has a defect in his gene that prohibits the HIV from attaching itself to the cells.

But the first guy seems to have a natural immunity they haven’t figured out yet.

I’m not a doctor, but I’m in the HIV/AIDS field. We’ve seen death rates from HIV disease all over the country drop drastically (40% and more) since the introduction of effective medical therapies in 1995/1996. Nobody knows how long this trend will continue and some drug-resistance is being seen - especially with those who have difficulty being compliant with their drug regimes - but the majority of people with HIV are doing extraordinarily well in this new era of effective therapies. We still don’t have a cure, but many infected individuals have viral load laboratory tests showing undetectable levels.

Until recently, many experts advised that people start on therapies as soon as possible after infection, the theory being that maybe aggressive treatment early on would knock the virus out of commission for good, or at least keep it from replicating. A new report is coming out soon in one of the medical journals with revised recommendations, though. I’ll see if I can find the email I got about this the other day to be sure what I’m about to say is accurate… If I recall correctly, new studies have shown that the side effects of these drugs can get worse over time and maybe even be life-threatening, and with the threat of developing eventual drug resistance, it’s better to wait awhile - until viral loads start to go up or symptoms appear - before introducing aggressive therapy. But let me get back to you to confirm that this is what it really said.

It’s true that some diseases become less virulent over time (syphilis for example), but I don’t think it’s because of the population developing antibodies like egkelly said. It seems more likely that the reason would be that the less virulent strains wouldn’t kill their hosts so fast, so would have more time to spread to others. The most virulent strains might burn out quickly. I don’t think anything like this is happening with HIV, though there is a less virulent type - HIV II - that’s found mostly in parts of Africa. It’s from a completely different lineage than HIV-I, not an evolutionary form of it. There are substrains of HIV-I which have variances in virulence, preferred modes of transmission, etc., but I’m in over my head if I start talking about that.

No one in our field, that I have seen, is predicting life spans for people with HIV nowadays… even for people who are or have been symptomatic. It’s a completely new era, even for some of those who were on their deathbeds a few years ago. I’ll tell you one thing - we practically never get reports of people with diseases like pneumocystis carinii pneumonia anymore, unless they are people who haven’t been on therapy.

There are specific “opportunistic diseases” that are rare or never occur in people with normal immune systems that, along with a confirmed HIV + test, give one an AIDS diagnosis. Another criterion for an “AIDS diagnosis” is a CD4 cell count under 200. Many of these “opportunistic diseases” that give one an AIDS diagnosis have become rare again - mostly I think because of the effective protease inhibitors, non-nucleoside reverse transcriptase inhibitors, and antiretroviral therapies allowing the immune system to keep them in check and partly because of the specifically effective prophylaxis now available against these diseases.

Some good websites for accurate information about HIV and AIDS are: www.cdc.gov and http:\hivinsite.ucsf.edu.

Just wanted to give you another site about treatment for HIV: http://www.hivatis.org/atisnew.html

The guy having “HIV negative kids” doesn’t mean anything, really.

Some small percentage of European-ancestored people seems to be genetically resistant to infection with HIV. It may be related to a gene these people carry that allowed their ancestors to survive some other, unrelated epidemic in Europe a long time ago. The fact is that the vast majority of human beings are susceptible to infection with HIV and there is no cure for it. Individual, rare events make good stories because they are that: rare.

Correct.

One more try: http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/

I understand that small pox never lost its virulence, but was chicken pox ever a mass killer?


If I was discussing Lucy Lawless but I wrote Lucy Topless, would that be a Freudian typo?

Scientific American - Sept. 1997, “In Search of AIDS Resistant Genes”

18 percent of Europeans have at least one resistant allele to HIV. This is more prevalent in Russia, PLoand, and Scandanavia.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem is that all projections of progression to HIV omit the vast untested population. While a deadly disease, and one that does some in quite quickly, the statistics for time to morbitity and mortality are always working from an unrepresented total population of infected persons.

It seems that the virus is getting nastier, as 16% of new infections are already resistant to drugs (die to infection from people taking these drugs).

Ironically, some early infected individuals may have the least nasty strains, and have been subjected to overly pessimistic projections. Now a days a rosy picture is psinted, but again it may not be accurate. Recent infections, if from resistant, and evolving strains may pose a worse threat.

The early cases may have been people who were infected for many years previously, and studies going back to the mid seventies on hepatitis and venereal diseases amung gay men support this. Unfortunately the common lifestyle in the areas heavily impacted by HIV were very much in line with 70’s party and drug behavior, which is a strong predictor of progression as well.

To the OP - as someone else said - it’s a crap shoot. A good example of those aspects of life which are both in our control and not. It is important not to “second guess” fate and do waht one can to preserve health. Because treatments are being developed all the time, it may be a situation like diabetes. Before insulin, people died all the time from it. Then one day, there was insulin. The day before it came out - anyone who said diabetes was fatal would be right. The day after, they would be wrong. If they had predictd or anticipated the death of a friend with diabetes the day before insulin was available, they would have done them a diservice - essentially “playing god”.

Your advice to your friend was good. Balance known risks of no transfusion with a minimum baseline risk of a bad transfusion.