withdrawn -
learn something new everyday -
And here’s the one mention in the book of orcs. It’s when Bilbo has escaped Gollum, and is making his way down the tunnel to the back door:
[quote]
The passage was low and roughly made. It was not too difficult for the hobbit, except when, in spite of all care, he stubbed his poor toes again, several times, on nasty jagged stones in the floor. “A bit low for goblins, at least for the big ones,” thought Bilbo, not knowing that even the big ones, the orcs of the mountains, go along at a great speed stooping low with their hands almost on the ground."
So in the book, an orc is just a big goblin.
Yeah, that’s the main piece I remember being left out. For some reason I thought there was more, but nothign else comes to mind (though admittedly I was mad because how can you leave a werebear out?!!).
I didn’t hate it. It was pretty pictures flashing on the screen, and the plot was enough to keep me relatively engaged on a moment by moment basis. I only looked at my watch a few times.
But I didn’t much like it, either. It not only had the look of a video game, it was paced like one. It felt like we got waves of not-particularly-dangerous mobs that could be easily wiped out with some figurative button mashing, followed by the occasional boss battle and cut scene. I never felt any actual danger or even nervousness for the characters. The enemies were cartoonish hoops they had to jump through, not actual real enemies.
Bilbo’s emotional arc was not at all compelling. I never really had the chance to identify with all of this exclusions and uselessness he was feeling. It felt more like I was being told this was what was happening, and the figures on the screen were going through the appropriate motions. I’m not sure what the problem was- the dialog and writing wasn’t particularly bad, but somehow it had no weight. This part felt literally like watching cut scenes in an RPG, or like those episodes of Gilligan’s Island where Gilligan is feeling left out but eventually does something good and bonds with the crew.
Being aimed at kids or based on a book is no excuse. There are good movies out there that manage to do it well despite these constraints.
Well, others have responded to that point directly, but the other answer to my question is of course that the “thorin getting his ass handed to him” thing was not in the book.
And in the rest of the scene being invisible would not have helped the party much.
(I suppose if bilbo gutted a few orcs while invisible the rest might run away but it’s in keeping with the character that he’s not willing or able to do that)
Oh, don’t be sorry- I am happy to be corrected. My misremembering of it seems a bit elaborate to be a made up memory, but it seems that somehow it is indeed a made up memory.
Still, I didn’t see evidence in the movie that he understood his invisibility. He recognized that Gollum couldn’t find him but I think he seemed confused as to why. I suppose we the audience were in fact meant to accept this as Bilbo’s realization of the effect of the ring.
It just didn’t seem that way to me.
P.S. I’m surprised with all of the Flight of the Conchords fans here that no one has mentioned Bret McKenzie’s cameo!
I myself, never realized until just now searching for a pic for this post that he was in the original Lord of the RIngs trilogy in both the 1st and 3rd films.
Apparently, in the new film he is meant to be an actual Tolkien created character named Lindir, whereas in the other films he was an unnamed extra who fans named Figwit.
I thought that was obvious. He is confused at first, and then realizes the ring makes him invisible. That’s why he follows behind Gollum as he leads him to the exit, and why he takes the ring off and puts it in his picket before rejoining the dwarves. I think your mistaken memory affected how you viewed the scene.
You could be right. And your description of Bilbo “following” Gollum to the exit addresses my interpretation that he was sneakily trying to hide from Gollum, trying not to be seen. Sneakily following explains the need to still be sneaky even while understanding his own invisibility.
even sven - thank you for saying it better than I.
Finally caught it this afternoon, and I loved it. I completely understand the complaints, and I can fully understand how someone would hate it, but I’m still riding a serious Middle Earth high and plan to for the rest of the day.
The Good:
-Martin Freeman was a perfect choice for Bilbo. Apart from wearing the Hobbit look well, he’s great at appearing wide eyed and slightly bewildered at all times. I, too, think I like him more than Frodo, though the LOTR scripts asked a hell of a lot more from Elijah Wood, so I’m not sure it’s a fair comparison.
-The scenes with Gollum were just as I pictured them in the book. Loved it.
-The Dwarves’ song at the dinner party.
-The way Jackson loves to revel in this world. Whoever said upthread that the New Zealand Tourist Board shots need to be cut is just plain crazy. One of the greatest joys of Jackson helming these movies is the way he brings Middle Earth to life.
-The Troll scene was a lot of fun. The Goblin King, too.
Everything Else (‘Meh’ to ‘Bad’)
-I’m a LOT more forgiving of Radigast than most of you. This is a lighter, goofier movie, and his character fits just fine. Hedgehog, no problem. Bunny sled, sure. That said, never put bird shit on your actor’s face and leave it there for a dialogue scene. It will be all. your audience. will see. Also, wizards smoking pot and doing 'shrooms? Really? Really? The whole, ‘wink wink, pipe weed’ thing was amusing in LOTR, but this was too blatant about it.
-Hated the Goblin King’s last words.
-This movie…drags. Now, I wasn’t really bored, but I could spend all day watching Middle Earth. But this felt like the extended edition of The Hobbit, and a lot of stuff could have been cut for the sake of the non-ring geeks. A lot of the Rivendell scenes, for starters. I’d have preferred a shorter film with more Bilbo focus.
-I was ‘meh’ about the Goblin Town fight scene, though I loved the look of Goblin Town itself.
-The Dwarves lack a lot of personality compared with the Fellowship. There was Gandalf, Thorin, Bilbo, um…I remember a Fili and Kili… This was a flaw of the book as well.
I agree, especially the opening. My guess is that the opening was about as extended as it gets, but the remaining 2 hours or so of the movie will improve with an extended cut, which it is getting on DVD.
The more I think back on the Hobbit(pt1), the more I really liked it. It really is improving in my mind and I can’t wait to see it again on DVD.
Ok, saw the high frame rate 3-d version, but had to spend most of the time up to the title talking to the theater manager and only caught bits and pieces of it. Shame too, the glimpse or two I caught of Moria in its prime looked amazing. I always wanted to see the glory of Moria in a film and the LOTR films only showed a few run down sections that felt very claustrophobic. But I get to go back and see it for free!
I agree the action scenes were sometimes reminiscent of Indiana Jones and the dwarves were too agile and Legolas-like. I didn’t have as much of an issue with Radagast as some people, but it felt a little over the top. Which worries me a little, because I’ve a feeling he’s going to switch places with Gandalf for the Dol-Guldur scenes the way they swapped Arwen in for Elrond or his sons in LOTR.
Bilbo was awesome. I just hope in the next 2 movies the ring doesn’t constipate him the way it did to Frodo. I think this pulled me out of LOTR more than the Gimli humor, and that’s saying a lot. Wife: “Why is he making that face again? What’s wrong with him?” Me: “Have you seen them eating anything that looks like fiber since they left Rivendale?”
Really nice acting from those who came back from LOTR (Gandalf, Gollum, etc). I still HATE Sauramon and the way he’s portrayed though. For someone who’s supposed to be a bad guy pretending to be a good guy, he’s not very subtle about it. I know it’s for the benefit of non-book fans to have an unambiguous Evil Mastermind type but still.
Thorin’s character was the perfect combination of nobility and sadness. I liked the rest of the dwarves acting too but some of them looked like rejected munchkins. Couldn’t they have made them distinct in appearance without making them Oompah Loompahs?
The theatrical movie felt about as extended as it gets - I can’t see how you could make it much longer. We got the whole side plot with the Witch King, the Morgal blade, Radagast, the council scene - I think all of that probably should have been put on hold for the extended edition. If they add more scenes focusing on Bilbo, I’d welcome them in an extended edition, otherwise…oh, who am I kidding? I’ll end up buying both versions.
I’m definitely seeing it again, probably next week. I also kinda feel like pulling the LOTR DVDs off the shelf for the first time in…oh, two years or so. I’m such a sucker for this series.
Hey, I never claimed sanity, I just have opinions on movies. DSM-V considerations aside, I’ve seen three movies with beautiful shots of New Zealand now. It’s very pretty. He can show that it’s pretty and move the plot along at a bit quicker pace, right? You yourself say the movie needs a trimming.
I really did like parts of the movie. The only part of Radgast I didn’t like was him naming his giant jackrabbit breed. I actually loved the Goblin King fight, and his last words. The rest of that sequence, was decidedly “meh” for me. I was probably hasty in saying that I wouldn’t see the later instalments, there are a lot of weekends in life. I don’t know that I’ll make it out to a midnight showing for them, though. I really do like Jackson as a director, I know he can do a bang-up job with just about anything. I just think he ended up indulging himself a bit much this time.
That’s a really random thing to be annoyed by. 
And it’s even sortof legitimate, since “Rhosgobel” is where he LIVES. So it’s not like they’re just making up some silly name. They’re RE-USING some silly name. S’like a Welsh Corgi or something.
Read the whole thread to see if anybody commented on what drew my attention.
First, overall I liked it, agree about the over the top video game action, I just kind of zone out for scenes like that.
Sad about the changes to the troll scene. That’s one of my favorite scenes in all of literature, there was no reason to change it.
Thought the riddle scene was great.
Here’s what I couldn’t stop paying attention to for the whole movie though: Kili…and sometimes Thorin. Why do all the other dwarves look like cartoons and they look like regular guys? (well ok, hot guys) I have to think this was a conscious choice. Do you think it was for the women? There’s precious little stereotypically “female” content in this story–is it possible they decided to throw the ladies a bone and give them something nice to look at?
If that was their reasoning then it worked in my case. Off to watch everything Kili ever acted in (oh sweet Jesus he’s Irish!)
Yes, to some extent it was. Fili & Kili were written by JRRT to be much younger and less dwarf-like. No doubt that Jackson, knowing this of course, decided to make them “hot’ to a mostly human set of viewers. But it doesn’t go at all against what JRRT wrote.
I do have to agree- but they could have chosen two better dwarves to have as the good looking ones, given… umm… you don’t need spoilers for books from 1937 do you?
Actually, I have always been of the opinion that is EXACTLY why those specific three are more “human” looking than dwarf. They’re pulling the emotional-attachment card hard and fast. Also, the next-most human-looking is Balin, and guess where HE ends up in LoTR? Oh, right… entombed during a pathos-ridden scene.
They’re purposefully making the “hero” dwarves look much more personable and approachable so that the finale has more impact. Not exactly a bad decision, as those of us who are familiar with the book will know all along what’s coming down the pike (and enjoy the hot actors while we’re at it) and people who HAVEN’T read the books will be much more struck by the ending than if the more stereotypical or caricatured dwarves don’t make it through.