Was originally thinking that LaRussa won’t get in because of Canseco and McGwire, then I realized:
Francona: “Papi”/Manny
Torre: Giambi/Clemens
Whiche leaves, IMO, Cox as the only one w/o longterm links to a notable “juicer”. So do you agree these guys will be tainted by the link?
No, why would they?
Because steriod use happened under their nose? :rolleyes:
It’s not the manager’s job to see to it that his players don’t gain any unfair competitive advantages. Rather the opposite, if anything.
ETA: And even if you think that it is or should be, the factual answer to your question is a definite “No, they will not be tainted,” since you are the first and only person I’ve ever heard of to imply that managers bear some responsibility for their players’ PED use. No one else cares.
It can’t be a coincidence that the only names that came out in the Mitchell report were associated with the few sources of information available to him. He had informers from the Yankees clubhouse and the Bay Area teams, so the names that came out are the ones you listed. A few others from the union test list have been leaked.
But don’t assume the Braves, or any other team that didn’t have someone under a legal requirement to cooperate with Mitchell, or someone with enough of an axe to grind to leak a name, are therefore clean. The overarching conclusion has to be that steroid use was rampant across the game, and you can’t single anybody out for it.
Cox and LaRussa were among the best managers of the Steroid Era. Torre and Francona have been too. Fairness requires you to hold your nose and vote for them.
So? What’s a manager going to do - run and tell Bud Selig? “Hey! My guys are doing something that everyone else is doing!” It was simply not their job. And Bud Selig said it wasn’t even HIS job either, so what do you think would have happened?
None of these managers will be tainted by the juicers, nobody cares. Also, guys named in the Mitchell report who played for Bobby Cox:
Larry Bigbie, Paul Byrd, Matt Franco, Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, David Justice, Kent Mercker, Denny Neagle, Todd Pratt, John Rocker, Gary Sheffield, Mike Stanton
There’s not a single team that didn’t have juicing going on, whether the manager knew about it or not. And it’s not going to have any impact on any manager’s HoF votes unless it comes out that Torre or Cox were passing out syringes in the clubhouse.
Sheff is the only guy on that list with a legit HoF argument.
n/m
So Hall of Fame managers would get a pass in your book if they only let non-HOF players juice?
What does that have to do with anything? Above you claimed that the issue was:
So it’s OK to not to notice steroid use as long as the player didn’t get really really good?
Selig and the management was well aware of steroid and HGH use. They made a fortune when the game was in trouble. They spent the money . Now they are shocked to find players used. The whole league is tainted from Commissioner down to the trainers.
Fans and media (admittedly moreso the latter) are more concerned with the players who put up HoF numbers. Because these are the players who will come down in history.
Actually, I think the BEST answer you could give would be: “Sorry, I guess that thing I said didn’t make a lot of sense. Never mind.” Let’s none of us be afraid of those words!
I’ve seen MUCH less intellectually defensible things said here.
Only if a known juicer becomes a coach.
Are they said by people with abnormally high ThreadStart-to-Post ratios?
There’s your answer right there: players.
John: are players a reflection on managers?
If they are (and it matters), then Bobby Cox is screwed, since he coached John Rocker.