How can people deny the Holocaust with so much evidence around that proves it? The Germans were and are meticulous record keepers. There are 10’s of thousands of pages. The receipts for the zyklon b still exist, floor plans for the gas chambers, the crematoriums. What are these idiots trying to do? How easy is it going to be for these that deny the past to get believers in the lies when all of the survivors are gone?
A visit to the Holocaust museum in DC is an eye opening experience.
Lord Flasheart to Nursie: I like it firm and fruity. Am I glad to see you
or did I just put a canoe in my pocket?
Lord Flasheart: She’s got a tongue like an electric eel and she likes the
taste of a man’s tonsils.
Extremists can negate any fact with just one two-word phrase: “Government Conspiracy”. The people that believe there was no Holocaust are the same paranoid ignoramuses that believe the moon landing was staged.
Elmer J. Fudd,
Millionaire.
I own a mansion and a yacht.
This is an old canard. Please don’t dignify it again by bringing it up on these boards. It is an old story and has been raised here before. Who gives a crap what they say? The truth is evident in news reels and eye witness accounts. End of story.
To handle yourself, use your head. To handle others, use your heart. unknown
What are you trying to debate, Banks? Clearly you believe it happened, and there is a vast historical record supporting that belief. Are you looking for someone to take the opposite side, and deny the Holocaust happened?
Banks, it is untrue and uninteresting what the revisionist say about the Death Camps. EVERYONE KNOW THE TRUTH. This is an old subject and really only gives them an opportunity to spout their lunacy.
Would you really want to talk to someone as stupid as they appear to be?
To handle yourself, use your head. To handle others, use your heart. unknown
Just trying to understand the mindset of those who do. Syria is a soveriegn country yet denies the Holocaust. What is their goal? Many revisionists have surfaced lately. Are they working for a cause?
It appears to me that there are people that actually believe the lies. I heard on NPR that 8 to 10% of Americans already doubt the Holocaust. What will that be if all discussion is stopped because it’s not true?
Oh, well, that’s easy. For political reasons, of course, the only reason nations do anything.
Israel gets a lot of Western support, political and financial, because of the traumas inflicted on the Jewish people by the Holocaust. (Gypsies and homosexuals don’t get nearly as much support, but that’s a topic for another thread.) Syria doesn’t think it’s fair that Israel gets that much support. If they can deny the existence of the Holocaust, then they deny Israel’s right to that support.
That’s all.
That’s the whole point. They can’t “deny” it. It happened what do they hope to gain? Suddenly the US drops Israel because the Holocaust didn’t happen? We don’t support Israel because of the Holocaust. We didn’t come to the aid of the Jews while it was happening and we had full knowledge that it was. They are our powerbase in the region regardless of their history.
Lord Flasheart to Nursie: I like it firm and fruity. Am I glad to see you
or did I just put a canoe in my pocket?
Lord Flasheart: She’s got a tongue like an electric eel and she likes the
taste of a man’s tonsils.
Well, I think that article pretty well sums up the reasons behind why Syria is doing what it’s doing. The way I read it, they are saying that Israel is taking unfair advantage of its historical record.
They also aren’t completely denying the Holocaust, btw. At least, the quote in this Reuters article, “``Zionism is erasing from human memory 50 million Nazi victims and concentrating on the suffering of Jews…” suggests to me that what they’re saying is that Israel is exaggerating the Jewish tragedy in the Holocaust and ignoring the other victims. Which is, to some degree true, ref. the aforementioned Gypsies and homosexuals.
Now, the article goes on to say that “historical facts prove that Zionism leaders then collaborated with the Nazis for the Jewish problem to get worse,” which is a somewhat different accusation and one I personally don’t have the facts to rebut.
I wish I could read Arabic to see the original article, rather than this excerpted one in the Reuters article.
I might also point out that the Syrian paper published that remark in an editorial, not a news story.
I have to wonder about the timing of this article. In December or January Israel and Syria finally made overtures to each other for peace (technically, they are still at war). This could at best set the peace process back, and at worst derail it completly.
Felice said
While that may be true it overlooks the important fact that the comments were made by the editor of an offical state newspaper.
If it were some different publication, I’d maybe write it off as silly right-wingers, but from an offical state paper, you can almost be assured that there is a political reason behind the story.
Point 1: Syria has been profoundly anti-Israel for the last 52 years or more, denying the Jews a right to a homeland and trying to extinguish Israel’s existence in at least four separate wars and innumerable guerrilla and terrorist activities.
Point 2: Syria does not have a free press. Most dictatorships nowadays believe that controlling the press (including tv and other media) controls the minds of their people. Remember the ol’ Soviet Union? they fed their people all sorts of ridiculous propaganda, lies, distortions to further the political ends of the dictator. As long as there is no source of other information, people believe what they are told.
That’s why Syria denies the Holocaust – right up there with denying the existence of the state of Israel.
And deep down inside, that’s why a small handful of Americans try to deny the Holocaust as well – because, at base, they’re anti-semites. They’re the same people who would happily deny civil rights to blacks, if they could.
You want to understand the mindset of Holocaust-deniers? It’s very simple – it’s the racist mindset that denies that anyone other than white Anglo-Saxon Protestants are human… and probably isn’t so sure about females, either.
To really understand that mindset, look in a sewer sometime.
I didn’t understand that line in the story. What policy is he referring to?
Now to spout off about something I know about only in a shallow and peripheral way:
I would draw a line between Holocaust deniers (it never happened) and Holocaust “revisionists”(it didn’t happen the way we all learned in school). The former it seems are, indeed, real, as hard as that was for me to believe when I first heard of them; their existence is best explained by radio waves from aliens on Alpha Centauri feeding them random signals through the mind-control chips the government implanted to monitor their thoughts.
The “revisionists” OTOH can also be divided into two too-easily confused groups: the first seem to be nothing more than people with one or another political agenda who hope to diminish the crime and tragedy of the Holocaust for whatever reason. They don’t deny the Holocaust outright, but they give one the impression of attempting to put a positive -or at least a less negative- “spin” on things like, say, Krystalnacht. You know, ‘Just a few drunks out getting rowdy, the whole thing was overblown’. That sort of thing. This crowd could potentially be very insidious and their views tempting for people who can’t or don’t want to recognize the full depths of human depravity.
The other group labeled as revisionists, however, are historians who are seeking the facts through a layer of fifty years of “common knowledge”, often created with its own political spin, and finding that in some cases popular history does NOT always match the evidence (surprise!). This group consists of serious scholars, but AFAIK, they just haven’t made any MAJOR changes to the basic facts of the “Final Solution”, or, importantly, the lessons a mature and aware person would draw from World War II. By which, of course, I mean me ;).[I’ve heard, but can’t defend, that the number of Jews killed by the Nazis was, at the most recent estimation, about 5 million men, women, and children. Does it change any conclusion to insist that it was really 6 million? With the numbers at this astonishing scale, I can’t see that it matters to our reaction - is anyone *less* appalled?] A few minor things may have changed, and probably will continue to do so (as is generally true in all history), but the broad interpretation of the events of the 30s and 40s is not likely to change.
– it’s the racist mindset that denies that anyone other than white Anglo-Saxon Protestants are human… and probably isn’t so sure about females, either.
To really understand that mindset, look in a sewer sometime.
Ursa and Adam, what is the implication of that sentence? What does it imply? What do those words mean? Since you or I cannot answer what CKDexhavn meant, why no let him clarify it himself?
To me it means that CKDexhavn feels that the person, or persons, holding those racist views are Anglo Saxon Protestants.
You can destroy your now by worrying about tomorrow. Janis Joplin
But then, I think he’s right. The person holding a view that “denies that anyone other than white Anglo-Saxon Protestants are human… and probably isn’t so sure about females, either,” is almost guaranteed to be white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant - since to be otherwise would mean that the view-holder believes he, himself, is not human.
Doesn’t that make sense?
But then you asked:
And there’s a key difference – the word “all.”
All persons holding a view that WASPs are the only humans are WASPs.
BUT – All WASPs do not hold the view that WASPs are the only humans.
If A, then B does not imply If B, then A. Those two statements are inverse of each other. If a statement is true, that does not imply its inverse is true.
However, the above sure seems to imply that Holocaust-deniers are exclusively Anglo-Saxon Protestants. The implication is clearly false. Holocaust-deniers come from many backgrounds- Central European Catholics, Eastern European Orthodox Christians, Middle Eastern Muslim, among others.