Home security systems - Protect America

Factual Questions
1

I’m looking into a security system for my house. I’ve looked at a number of systems, including ADT, Brinks, and a couple of local companies. And then, while doing a search on the internet, I stumbled onto this company.

The name of the company is Protect America, and they sell and install GE Home Security devices. One of the local companies I researched used the exact same equipment, but charged for them. Their monthly monitoring price, however, was lower.

If you look at their comparison page (which is what I linked to), you can see that there really isn’t much of a comparison. If the company goes belly up, I have the equipment that I’ve paid essentially nothing for, and could go with one of the local security companies.

However. This seems too good to be true. What am I missing? Has anyone used Protect America and if so, are you happy with your service? Can you tell me the pros and cons?

It really seems like a deal too good to pass up. But that’s what makes me pause.

Thanks!

2

[QUOTE=kurahee]
If the company goes belly up, I have the equipment that I’ve paid essentially nothing for, and could go with one of the local security companies.
[/QUOTE]
Well, not really.
That equipment installed in your house is owned by them, and if they go bankrupt, it is part of the assets of the company that will be sold by the bankruptcy court. So some other company will buy it, and could come to your house and reposess that equipment that they now own.

It probably isn’t worthwhile to them to remove the door & window contacts installed there, but the main control panel, motion detector, keypads & siren are probably easily removed and valuable enough to be worth removing.

But in fact, most likely the assets of the bankrupt company, including both the equipment, remaining months on customer contracts, and the customer names & goodwill would probably be bought as a package by one of the competing security companies. Then they will work hard to try to retain you as a customer of their service once your contract runs out.

P.S. You refer to ‘local’ security companies, but the main ones, Brinks, ADT, Guardian, Honeywell, are all nationwide security companies, with offices in various cities. Sometimes company owned, some franchised. If you move across the country in the middle of a 2-year contract with one of them, they will often let you complete that contract with their office in your new hometown.

3

By the way, I think GE’s standard consumer panel is the Ademco Vista 20. It’s a nice consumer panel or even a good low-end commercial panel (a very, very, very large chain of small-footprint retail businesses uses them). It is a LITTLE bit flaky when you manage it in quantity compared to certain other panels I can think of, but any given site will likely never experience problems with their panel.
I believe it’s also the standard ADT alarm panel, although they use a custom ROM in theirs to keep you from changing monitoring services.
The best consumer reference on the net for this stuff is the forums at www.homesecuritystore.com [Warning: that IS a commercial site, but they’re nice folks and you can get good advice on their forums. I’m in the industry but my employer is about 9000% bigger than homesecuritystore.com. I have no interest in them.]
You can get monitoring quite cheaply if you’re willing to pay up front for parts and installation, BTW. $9/mo is quite possible and a fraction of what ADT runs.

4

By the way, panels cost less than you might imagine, and even less wholesale. The cost of a GOOD installer putting your system in and protecting the right points properly is what really drives up costs.
It’s not hard, but I’ve seen genius install work and work that made me want to have the installer castrated to prevent his obviously stupid^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Gomer Pyle genes from being spread.

5

The “basic” system might not cover your needs. You’ve got to consider how many points of entry there are to your home, and what areas need protection. When I priced systems, I would have needed an additional six hundred dollars worth of equipment over the “basic” free package.

Secondly, are you SURE you need an alarm? They’re really often more of a pain in the ass than they are a help. Some cities charge for false alarms, and from experience, I know that the neighbors generally ignore them (just like car alarms.)

Theives are usually looking for a quick and easy dash-and-grab. If your house looks like it would be too much bother (thorny bushes under the windows, barking dog, heavy doors, looks like someone may be home, or nothing valuable and protable visable from the windows) they’ll tend to move on to a better target anyway.

6

As a general rule, you will be the owner of the system. The whole sphere of security systems generally uses the same equipment. Some companies give them away in order to get your monthly business, kind of like cell phones. They make the money on the monthly contract.
In Oklahoma the companies are regulated by the Department of Health. There are some pretty strict guidelines here. You have to go through a LOT of hoops to get a salesman’s license here; IIRC, they are harder to get than an Insurance Agent license. So, if they are licensed, they can be as good or as bad as the general run.
I, personally, hate ADT with a passion. Their prices are about 35 percent higher, and their service is no better than my new one. I get a few more perks with my present company (free fob for remote on/off, etc…) and the contract time is shorter, so if they don’t do right, I can change companies. I had one tech tell me that ADT does, indeed, 'boobytrap" the system, so it makes it a lot harder to replace their service.
You will want to make sure that the company is licensed, cost of system and service, where and how many points are alarmed in the house and most definitely get a service contract.

hh

7

[QUOTE=handsomeharry]
Some companies give them away in order to get your monthly business, kind of like cell phones. They make the money on the monthly contract.
[/QUOTE]

I know this is true, as once upon a time when I was a telemarketer there was a company that used our service after setting out those little cardboard boxes around town so that people could enter a “contest”, usually to win a vacation or a car or some such. What most people “won” was a home security system, which of course was useless unless you had monthly service, which I then conveniently called and sold them.

8

[QUOTE=handsomeharry]

You will want to make sure that the company is licensed, cost of system and service, where and how many points are alarmed in the house and most definitely get a service contract.

hh
[/QUOTE]

Is finding out the company is licensed as simple as making a phone call? What agency would one call? This company came to my attention from a web search, and after looking at the price differentials, I wanted to see if it could be possible that this company could possibly offer its services at such competitive prices.

[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net]

You refer to ‘local’ security companies, but the main ones, Brinks, ADT, Guardian, Honeywell, are all nationwide security companies, with offices in various cities. Sometimes company owned, some franchised. If you move across the country in the middle of a 2-year contract with one of them, they will often let you complete that contract with their office in your new hometown.

[/QUOTE]

I know Brinks and ADT are national companies. There are a few where I live which are very localized. I don’t think they have coverage areas outside the town I live in. They are a bit less expensive, but I don’t have much faith in them one way or the other. I don’t personally know anyone who uses them. But I didn’t recognize the names until I moved here. ADT, Brinks, Honeywell, etc., however are very recognizable.

[QUOTE=Mr. Slant]

You can get monitoring quite cheaply if you’re willing to pay up front for parts and installation, BTW. $9/mo is quite possible and a fraction of what ADT runs.

[/QUOTE]

How is this possible and by who? Would it be a reputable company? Would I need to buy/install my own system?

[QUOTE=handsomeharry]

As a general rule, you will be the owner of the system. The whole sphere of security systems generally uses the same equipment. Some companies give them away in order to get your monthly business, kind of like cell phones. They make the money on the monthly contract.

[/QUOTE]

This makes the most sense to me, but for **Protect America ** to make money, they’d have to reach some sort of critical mass. They seem to be national, at least from what I’ve been able to find on the website. I would assume they’d have to tie into a local police/fire station for the system to be viable. They do lock you in for 3 years at $35, so that’s a nice income stream.

9

[QUOTE=kurahee]
Is finding out the company is licensed as simple as making a phone call? What agency would one call? This company came to my attention from a web search, and after looking at the price differentials, I wanted to see if it could be possible that this company could possibly offer its services at such competitive prices.

I know Brinks and ADT are national companies. There are a few where I live which are very localized. I don’t think they have coverage areas outside the town I live in. They are a bit less expensive, but I don’t have much faith in them one way or the other. I don’t personally know anyone who uses them. But I didn’t recognize the names until I moved here. ADT, Brinks, Honeywell, etc., however are very recognizable.

How is this possible and by who? Would it be a reputable company? Would I need to buy/install my own system?

This makes the most sense to me, but for **Protect America ** to make money, they’d have to reach some sort of critical mass. They seem to be national, at least from what I’ve been able to find on the website. I would assume they’d have to tie into a local police/fire station for the system to be viable. They do lock you in for 3 years at $35, so that’s a nice income stream.
[/QUOTE]

Protect America advertises that they are the “Largest Authorized Installer of GE Home Security”. As such, they would have to be national and fairly decent sized, so yes, they have an economy of scale..
As far as my $8.95 per month monitoring, I got that number from http://www.homesecuritystore.com/home_alarm_monitoring.htm .
Seriously, hit that URL, and take their advice about who to contact before getting monitoring.
I’ll note that you should always make sure your monitoring center is UL listed.
You would need to purchase and have your own panel installed, but to be honest, the investment WILL pay for itself versus rent-to-own within a few years.
A local installer should be willing to put the panel in for you.
They don’t tie into the local fire/police, they really just dial the local cops up long-distance and tell them an alarm has gone off. There USED to be lines that went straight from the business to a panel in the PD via an always-on line at the telco, but those are going away pretty rapidly, and no way you’ll get a new one installed in your house.

10

[QUOTE=Cluricaun]
I know this is true, as once upon a time when I was a telemarketer there was a company that used our service after setting out those little cardboard boxes around town so that people could enter a “contest”, usually to win a vacation or a car or some such. What most people “won” was a home security system, which of course was useless unless you had monthly service, which I then conveniently called and sold them.
[/QUOTE]

Hmmm. Did anyone ever actually just have a panel mailed to them and then tell you it was going to be used for decoration in the back lawn, etc?

11

[QUOTE=Mr. Slant]
Hmmm. Did anyone ever actually just have a panel mailed to them and then tell you it was going to be used for decoration in the back lawn, etc?
[/QUOTE]

Not exactly, but if I had followed the wishes of many of those “winners” I would find it awkward to walk and there would be a cacophony of beeping noises coming from my bowels. :smiley:

12

[QUOTE=Cluricaun]
Not exactly, but if I had followed the wishes of many of those “winners” I would find it awkward to walk and there would be a cacophony of beeping noises coming from my bowels. :smiley:
[/QUOTE]

“I won a panel? Where are you, I’l take a road trip to pick it up.”

13

[QUOTE=Mr. Slant]
“I won a panel? Where are you, I’l take a road trip to pick it up.”
[/QUOTE]

Nope, I don’t recall the exact wording, but the standard intro let them know that the prize was already on it’s way.

14

[QUOTE=Mr. Slant]
Protect America advertises that they are the “Largest Authorized Installer of GE Home Security”. As such, they would have to be national and fairly decent sized, so yes, they have an economy of scale..
As far as my $8.95 per month monitoring, I got that number from http://www.homesecuritystore.com/home_alarm_monitoring.htm .
Seriously, hit that URL, and take their advice about who to contact before getting monitoring.
I’ll note that you should always make sure your monitoring center is UL listed.
You would need to purchase and have your own panel installed, but to be honest, the investment WILL pay for itself versus rent-to-own within a few years.
A local installer should be willing to put the panel in for you.
They don’t tie into the local fire/police, they really just dial the local cops up long-distance and tell them an alarm has gone off. There USED to be lines that went straight from the business to a panel in the PD via an always-on line at the telco, but those are going away pretty rapidly, and no way you’ll get a new one installed in your house.
[/QUOTE]

Mr. Slant,

Thank you for the link. I had not stumbled onto this one, but there is a lot of good information on there.

2 quick questions:

  1. Is this for a do-it-yourselfer? Meaning, I could buy everything myself, hook it up, make a phone call, and pay $8.95 a month?

  2. I could buy all the equipment and get a professional installer, and then make a phone call and pay $8.95 a month?

It seems the only downside(s) would be

  1. no staff maintenance (i.e. the truck they keep referring to)
  2. no fancy sign for the front lawn. (maybe you can buy them, I just didn’t see the link)
15

Speaking as a former commercial sales rep for SecurityLink, alarm systems are installed as a “loss leader”. Basic system-a few doors, a motion sensor, and interior sounder: x $. Monthly monitoring: bend over and wail. I install burglary and fire systems, residential and commercial, and monitor them annually for less than the big companies do for a quarter of the year. Pay me for my expertise, which is the design and installation of the system, not recurring revenue. It’s just a different business model.

16

[QUOTE=kurahee]
Mr. Slant,

Thank you for the link. I had not stumbled onto this one, but there is a lot of good information on there.

2 quick questions:

  1. Is this for a do-it-yourselfer? Meaning, I could buy everything myself, hook it up, make a phone call, and pay $8.95 a month?

  2. I could buy all the equipment and get a professional installer, and then make a phone call and pay $8.95 a month?

It seems the only downside(s) would be

  1. no staff maintenance (i.e. the truck they keep referring to)
  2. no fancy sign for the front lawn. (maybe you can buy them, I just didn’t see the link)
    [/QUOTE]

2 quick questions:

  1. If you are competent to design a system, mount a panel on the wall, provide it with a power input and integrate your various sensors and contacts with it, either wirelessly or via low-voltage wiring, then yes, you can do it yourself. Incidentally, designing the system to be both cheap and effective is harder than anything else in this equation. Real easy for an amateur to wind up missing something important or going for overkill.
    If you DIY, be aware that your dealer needs to do your hardware support, NOT the guys who made the panel. 98% of alarm vendors will not talk to someone who isn’t a licensed installer, or can at least fake being one.
  2. Yes, you could buy all the equipment and get a professional installer to install it, then pay the $8.95 per month.

As far as maintenance… umm… you’re not exactly self-insuring against huge losses here. A good consumer panel is under $200 and that’s likely the most expensive part of your installation. Your main issue is to remember to replace batteries before their expiration dates. Remember, we’re talking about low-MHZ 1980-style circuitry here. Some panels from the 60s are still in operation.
It’s more like your thermostat than your car or computer.
You can always pay by the hour for repairs by a professional, but you likely won’t be calling these guys too often.
As far as the sign goes, the professional alarm installer would likely sell/give you a sign indicating you had his alarm. It is free advertising for him, even if he’s not getting the monitoring revenue.

17

It should be noted that the equipment being used by protect america is a wireless system. You are probably going to be responsible for installing it yourself. There are several issues with wireless systems vs hardwired–
1)You must test and change batteries in every piece of equipment…obviously with an alarm system, this can easily be 15-20 batteries or more
2)The quality is generally poor(you can buy el cheapo wireless stuff at Wal-Mart, Lowes, etc), unless you are actually getting a wireless version of an actual hardwired system(for example, adding wireless equipment to an Ademco vista panel)
3)A hardwired system is a structural home improvement, and most appraisers will increase the value of a home with one. A wireless system is just some stuff you’ve got stuck on a wall or door with double sided tape.
4)The failure rate/service call rate with wireless equipment is higher than hardwired equipment.

I work for a low voltage company(we all worked for ADT, ADT dealers, Brinks, and some other local companies before we left and started this one), we do everything from security to home theater to commercial access control to internet monitoring of cameras, etc. I would highly recommend you go with a hardwired system, assuming your home allows it.

If you can maybe give more details about why you feel you need the system, I would feel better about recommending what types or brands of equipment I would use in your case. My company uses Ademco Vista panels for our new residential accounts, as noted above they are relatively inexpensive and good value for the money.

You should note that some companies(Brinks, for example) use proprietary equipment. If you put Brinks equipment in, in the future no other company can monitor it. Some companies will also lock out a panel, so even if you have an Ademco panel, only the original company can get into it for programming

18

Just for reference, double ditto what Capa said about wireless.
If you got the $$$$, you wanna’ do hard-wired. Heck, if you got the $$$$, do hard-wired, make sure your system “processor” is separate from your keypad and add in a cellular backup to provide protection if someone cuts your phone line.
On second thought, you could just put A Big Black Guy Named Ben [1] on payroll as an around the clock guard…

[1] http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view.php?id=2137

19

Capa84 you speak disparagingly of wireless systems in a manner I find to be unwarranted. For years I’ve sold Napco hybrid hardwire and wireless systems, and one one the points I’ve touted is that the wireless controller reports low battery signals from remote sensors. When a sensor goes off line completely, the wireless controller transmits a trouble code for that zone. Most of the systems I’ve sold are still in service and enjoyed by the homeowner/business owner 15-20 years after original installation, so I would hesitate to generalize them as being of poor quality. Indeed, my experience with the alarm industry is that exceptional equipment functions poorly when improperly installed.

20

Actually what I said was that if you HAD to use wireless, due to construction issues, then use the hybrid stuff that is made by the larger manufacturers. The link in the OP is for a crappy system similar to what you see at Radio Shack, Lowe’s, etc…it’s the stuff that you peel a sticker off the back and stick it up on a wall.

My preference would be
1)completely hardwired
2)wire as much as possible, then add w/l as necessary
3)complete wireless system from a major manufacturer(like the Ademco Lynx pkg)
4)peel and stick wireless
and to follow up Mr. Slant, if you have the $$$, add 4 infrared cameras with a IP addressable DVR that will send a text message to your cellphone whenever a camera detects motion. Then you can just hop online and view what’s going on.