Homosexual "rights"?!

Some ignorant person stated, “I have as yet to read, see, or hear any gay or lesbian activist openly state or demand that their identification of a same sex lifestyle be received by society as valid, legal, correct or moral.”

*the word choice has been edited out and replaced with a more correct word.

Being gay is correct, valid, legal (in most states), and moral. The reason you see it “cloaked”, as you so subversively put it, with adoption, marriage, the military is because the American public views those institutions as a scale of morality. Gay people are equally capable of performing all the necessary tasks entailed in any of those functions.

The comparisons you say gay peoplemake (adoption, marriage, military service, etc) are put there so the radical right does not focus on the sexual issue. The radical right can’t get over the ick factor so we as gay people are forced to prove that rights we are equally as capable in those issues that the straight majority has as an inherent quality.

I can’t see how the radical right people would not support the the so called “homosexual agenda”. It would be putting people into loving committed relationships, allow the mass of unwanted children to be put into a home more quickly and efficiently since gay people would be allowed to adopt easier, and it would also allow gay people to be as foolish as their straight counterparts and go to war and die for the outdated ideals that the radical right pretends to encompass. Personally, I would think that the radical right as a group would actually encourage gay people to join the military or some other profession with a high mortality rate or at least a profession where dying can be put into the job description. Personally I wouldn’t endorse this idea because I don’t believe the military as a killing institution should exist in the form it is in today. (moderate hijack alert That is a whole other topic, but to say it briefly…I think the “military” should become something like a Peace Corps organization and provide safety for people in danger through non-lethal activities (a good lack of trade could work wonders), provide instruction for agriculture and water purification, and last but not least, provide training for the people that the “military” is deemed to aid to become self sufficient at least in the most modest sense of the idea.end hijack)

pashley also stated, “Disagree with a gay groups’ agenda, and you’re automatically labelled a “bigot”, “hatemonger” or “intolerant”, and they are calling US hateful, intolerant?”

Well, if the shoe fits. The reason a person is labeled as a hatemonger if they oppose the basic civil rights that we as gay people want is because if you replace gay with black, jew, Catholic, Hindu, etc then the resulting clause is a hateful, demeaning idea. For example, I don’t think Catholics should marry because their lifestyle is amoral. Or, Black people shouldn’t be allowed to adopt because they are often involved in criminal activity. (As you can see by a previous link, gay activities are illegal in what was it 11 or 12 states?) They fired Abdul last week because he was Hindu. And last, Jews shouldn’t allowed to be in the military because their beliefs will distract the other soldiers and will foster a lower morale. These ideas with whatever word you want to throw in are just plain silly.

Gay people don’t want special rights, just equal rights. We want to marry the person we love (although Bruce Villanch doesn’t…see Politically incorrect several weeks ago), we want to have the choice to raise a family/adopt in the way we see fit like heterosexuals are permitted, and we want to have the right to perform in any type of job that we are capable of without being harassed or fired simply because we are gay. Pretty simple.

The fact that people actually oppose these basic civil rights is significantly more abhorrent. I believe Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said something to the effect that no one is truly free as long as one group in society is not allowed to partake of all the freedoms accorded to another. By actively opposing gay legislation, you are then deemed part of the problem because you are opposing one group a freedom that you are accorded. That is why opposing gay legislation is labled bigotted.

Let’s assume that you have a child. There is no assurance that your child is straight. I will play the assume game and assume that you want your child to grow up in a morally loving and safe environment. Now let’s assume that your child picks up your ideology on homosexuality. He now equates gayness to abhorrent behaviour and something that should be stricken from the earth at the most severe case or something more akin to being a second class citizen at best. Now let’s assume that when your child turns 16 he finally starts to come out with his own gayness. Would you rather have him think of himself as a second class citizen (probably at best) or a complete freak of nature who is not worthy of a loving, commited relationship because the country currently does not sanction it? Wouldn’t you want your child to be happy as long as he is not hurting anybody and pursuing mutual happiness with someone who has the same emotional fixation as he has? Or, would you try to steal that opportunity away from him and have him live a closeted, afraid existence? Which one of those ideas are more moral? The one that your child is true to himself or the one where he lies and hides who he is and how he feels? By your previous posts I would assume that you would take the second and have him hide who he is and not actually be able to achieve happiness. If that is the case, do you think he will ever achieve any closeness with you or will it only be a feigned closeness? Where is the morality in that? Also, where is the true aspect of love in that equation? Love should be something that “knows no boundaries” and should always be accepting as long as it actively does not hurt the mutual participants. Riddle me that, Batman.

HUGS!
Sqrl

SqrlCub’s Arizona Adventure

Four posts before mine went through… that will teach me to go for a walk while it is sending.

HUGS!
Sqrl


SqrlCub’s Arizona Adventure

Of course you count, and it’s nice to know that not all heterosexuals believe the way Pashley does, especially since he seems to believe he speaks for every non-gay person in the country.

Esprix


Ask the Gay Guy!

quote esprix:


“Do you think there is fairness in voicing their views today?”


More than fair, manipulative. They own the liberal media. You never hear a bad thing about homosexuality, only advocacy. Look at the soon to be Dr. Laura show. Because she decrys homosexuality, the gay groups went nuts and demanded that Paramount pull her show. That is facist thinking if I have ever heard it.

quote:
___________________________________________-
“What are your feelings on domestic partnerships?”


I don’t have a problem with gays having legal rights in terms of estate bequeathment, and such. What I have a problem with is calling this “marriage”. Marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman, and they want us to change it to suit their ways, legitimizing it. Sorry, no.

quote:


“What is the problem with affording them equal legal protection?”


Again, I don’t have a problem with them having the right to work, housing, medical benefits and so on. As far as gay-bashing laws, no sorry. That’s call assault and battery, use that charge. Why do the gays deserve a special charge for them? They don’t.

quote:


“Now, do I really need to go into the story of my friend Randy, who was murdered just for being perceived as gay?”


Sorry to hear this guy was murdered, gay or not. I don’t condone violence against gays.

Quote polycarp:


"It’s not about “orientation” or “practice” or “deviancy” or whatever the hell abstract noun you want to dig out of the unabridged dictionary and throw in here. It’s about people. "


Look, I’m not naive enough to think I’m going to convert gays to straight, I have no interest in that anyway. My point is the gay rights groups demand these “rights”, like they were the civil rights the blacks demanded years ago; the ability to vote, for example. Since when is a behavior like a civil right?

quote Esprix:


“Um, huh? I think this may be your perception, but most gay people and groups I know are quite comfortable saying that homosexuality is valid, legal, correct and moral; I know I am. Now, is it valid, correct or moral for you? Doesn’t seem that way, which is fine by me. However, when it comes to questions of legality, I do expect us to be treated equally.”


Yes, again, no problem being treated equally in terms of legal issues like housing, job discrimination and so on. I’ve got no problem with that.

quote:


“No one is demanding that churches who feel that homosexuality is a sin should perform wedding ceremonies;”


Are you kidding? How many rogue gay/lesbian ministers are out there bucking the church authorities? They want what they want. Churchs are being targeted by gay groups, portraying them as OK-ing gay unions, citing that recent press release with the signatures of some clergy (the document escapes me, sorry). Legitimize it in the pulpit, the people will follow, the thought is. What about the iniative to infiltrate schools? A gay rights group recently sent out an outline to elementary (!) school administrators asking them to teach homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle. Do kids in elemtary schools need this? No, but the group is trying to get to the minds of the kids first, that is their agenda. What’s next, trans-generational love?

quote:


“Please amuse me by saying that Proposition 222 is not an anti-gay initiative.”


It’s not. It’s about preserving the notion that marriage is between a man and a woman only. Doesn’t bash any gays.

quote:


“I, a homosexual, come forth directly and state that my lifestyle is moral and correct.”


Good for you. I can state the same, and have the biology to prove it.


Patrick Ashley

‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ -Edmund Burke

quote polycarp:


“On what grounds can you call them immoral? Most people would quickly turn to the Judeo-Christian ethic, which calls for being non-judgmental”


Well, I’m not sure where you get that notion. The God of the Judeo-Christians is a loving God, but a just God. I don’t have a big enough ego to think that I can judge everyone, and be right. I do go by what biology and the Bible says though, about a man laying with a man. And please, don’t attack my Christianity, that is so lame.

quote SqrlCub:


“I can’t see how the radical right people would not support the the so called “homosexual agenda”. It would be putting people into loving committed relationships, allow the mass of unwanted children to be put into a home more quickly and efficiently …”


What child doesn’t deserve a mom and dad? Can you honestly say that two women or men are as good? Did YOU have two parents? Did you appreciate the difference between the two? And don’t come back with the “Two lesbians can have some guy as an uncle…” retort. I’m talking about a home, not some make-shift “family”. How are these kids suppose to feel when they introduce “My two mommys” at school? Confused, teased and dissapointed, and you KNOW they will. Here’s an example of a couple just being selfish, not considering a child, just wanting a kid for the fun of it. Shame on them. If they want to be together, let them, but don’t mess up a kid’s life by bringing him into that kind of situation. Every kid deserves a mom and dad!


Patrick Ashley

‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ -Edmund Burke

Wow, he actually can read. Now, can he reason?

Methinks that if a show depicting positive portrayals of homosexuals were so abhorrent to mainstream America, they wouldn’t do so well in the ratings. Heaven forbid we portray tolerance of differences, which, if I recall correctly, is supposedly one of the cornerstones of this country.

But Paramount didn’t pull her, and by all looks won’t. Perhaps if there were but one or two incidences, but the woman espouses hate (granted, at everyone who calls her) on a regular basis. Sure, Paramount has a right to pick up her show, and you know what? She’ll probably do just as well as her predecessors, Howard Stern and Rush Limbaugh. So, do I get to say that anti-gay sentiments are now being “manipulative, and owning the conservative media?”

(Oh, and feel free to visit stopdrlaura.com to see some of her “compassion.”)

I don’t have a problem with blacks marrying whites in terms of legalities, but I have a problem calling it “marriage,” which should only be for members of the same race, and them uppity Negores want to go and change it to suit their ways, legitimizing it.

From salon.com:

Nah, there’s no dichotomy in the judicial system against gay men and lesbians, so the laws that exist are just fine, y’hear?

And since when would you deny anyone the right to vote? Suppose Jews were being denied the right to marry; Judaism is a behavior, after all, so would you be opposed to that as well? And what are your thoughts on the civil rights legislation passed in the 60’s? Or the ERA, for that matter?

And those ministers will tell you they are doing what they do out of a sense of conscience and rightness. Do you think they’ve somehow been brainwashed by gay activists?

Would it surprise you to know that some religious denominations actually do recognize same-sex unions, calling them moral, just and appropriate? Just because your church doesn’t doesn’t mean everyone’s doesn’t. Again, you seem to think you speak for the entirety of the United States.

Quote this cite, please, or retract the statement, as I have every reason to believe you’re taking this out of context from somewhere.

Oh, no, except denies same-sex couples the right to marry if passed in another state. No, I see no anti-gay sentiment there at all. And all the anti-gay advertising pitched at passing it isn’t really anti-gay. Huh. I guess I was reading them wrong. :rolleyes:

Biology? Please, expound on what you mean by this.

Esprix


Ask the Gay Guy!

Although much of what pashley brings up has been covered in depth in other threads (gay marriages/parenting, etc.), I’m going to put my $0.02 in:

You’re right - what child doesn’t deserve a mom and a dad? So I suppose marriage, as an institution, has failed, what with that just-about 50% divorce rate and all that. I mean, that leaves the kid with just one parent, right? So, which is better - two loving parents, or just one?

First of all, how dare you refer to a same-sex couple with extended relatives as a family in quotations; you slap the face of every family who is not defined by your outdated, narrow-minded husband/wife/2.5 kids/dog mentality. When straights can get it together enough to keep their own families intact, then maybe they can start casting stones.

So, if a husband and wife get divorced, and the wife retains custody, are her friends, family and such suddenly relegated to “make-shift family?”

Any psychologist worth his salt will adamantly point out that the most important thing in any child’s development is that they be in a loving, stable home environment that will be able to deal with a child’s growing up experiences. Plus, do you think kids will be harsher on one kid than another, say, with glasses? Or handicapped? Or of a different race? Maybe you might want to consider teaching your kids tolerance instead of hate.

On the one hand, any couple that chooses to have children is selfish; on the other, how selfish of you to deny anyone that right.

Every kid deserves love and respect, no matter who they get it from. If I had to choose for my own child, I’d pick a same-sex couple over your close-minded views any day of the week.

Esprix


Ask the Gay Guy!

Somewhere up there, Falcon reassured Esprix that not all heterosexuals share the viewpoint of Patrick here. I’d just like to reiterate that point there by saying that I have absolultely no problem with gays wanting and having the same rights as heterosexuals to marry, adopt, and so forth. I cannot understand why this would be a problem for anyone else. I do not view marriage as being a union between a man and a woman; I view it as being a union between two people that love each other. Of course, by that definition, polygamy becomes an issue, but I shall leave that debate for another time, except to say that if there is anyone who wishes to marry multiple people, please speak up, so that the rest of us know that this is something to consider, OK?


SanibelMan - My Homepage
“All right. Have it your own way. Road to hell paved with unbought stuffed dogs. Not my fault.”

Do you actually watch television?

I detect a flaw in the logic. If gays own the media, how did Dr Laura get a radio show in the first place? How did she even get an offer for a TV show? And excuse me, but did the First Amendment get repealed when I was out of the room, that gay people can’t speak out when aggrieved?

So, to keep the concept of marriage 'legitimate," you want to strip it of all legal connotations beyond a piece of paper filed with some county clerk. Tell me, how do same-sex marriages de-legitimize anyone else’s marriage?

Can we once and for all get some clarity on the issue of hate crimes? Hate crime legislation provides for penalty enhancement on the basis of categories, not sub-categories. Penalties are enhanced if the crime is committed because of “race,” for example, not because of “blackness.” Penalty enhancements apply to “sexual orientation,” not “homosexuality.” If a gay person assaults a str8 person in a hate crime jurisdiction because the str8 person is str8, then penalty enhancements apply. So please, shut the hell up about hate crimes being “special charges” because it’s just a flat-out ignorant lie. And for the record, I oppose hate crime legislation on First Amendment grounds.

I’m not aware of any great move to deny gay people the right to vote or any great effort on the part of gays for suffrage. Black people did (and do) face discrimination in such arenas as employment, housing and public accomodation. So do gay people. While the experiences of the two groups are not identical, are you capable of seeing that there is a parallel?

Did you find some evidence that voting is not a behaviour? Is there some reason that you are unable to understand the difference between sexual ORIENTATION and sexual BEHAVIOUR? Are you having sex right now? Are you still heterosexual? See how that works, how your sexual ORIENTATION doesn’t change depending on your sexual BEHAVIOUR?

I’m not aware of any gay or lesbian ministers “bucking church authorities.” I am aware of a number of courageous str8 clergy defying and challenging what they view as a miscarriage of spiritual justice.

Wow, convenient. The only recent press release of which I’m aware is one that clergy from many California churches released in opposition to Prop 22. I’m unaware of any gay group “targeting” churches.

What is the name of this group? Do you feel any obligation to back up your assertions at all?

Slippery slope argument. Logical fallacy.

Spare me. Laws banning SSM have been used in several states to attack domestic partnership and gay civil rights laws. Take a look at the agendas of Prop 22’s backers.

Esprix wrote:

To which Patty responded:

What the hell does this even mean?

Then you favor removing children from single-parent households and placing them with married couples?

How dare you judge the quality of someone else’s family?

Then perhaps what should be dealt with is the attitude that having two mommies is a “makeshift family.”

Oh yeah. two people who can’t biologically produce a child on their own, who take in an orphaned or abandoned child, perhaps with physical or emotional disabilities, who invest thousands of hours and thousands of dollars to raise a child, are “selfish.” Shame on you.

Patty’s sig line:

Between good men doing nothing and you actively promoting it, evil’s in pretty good shape.

I view marriage as an out-of-date quasi-institution that carries so much historical legal baggage with it that it’s practically useless.

Oh, and it’s a good tax break if your spouse doesn’t make any money.

Man, I’m I in a GLADD meeting, or what?

Quote:


“Methinks that if a show depicting positive portrayals of homosexuals were so abhorrent to mainstream America, they wouldn’t do so well in the ratings. Heaven forbid we portray tolerance of differences, which, if I recall correctly, is supposedly one of the cornerstones of this country.”


I tolerate homosexuals, but you’ve got to give me the voice to not approve.

quote:


“I don’t have a problem with blacks marrying whites in terms of legalities, but I have a problem calling it “marriage,” which should only be for members of the same race, and them uppity Negores want to go and change it to suit their ways, legitimizing it.”


Well, here we go with the false analogies. I did say, “Man and woman”.
What gives homosexuals the right to change that fact? Because they want to legitimize their lifestyle, that’s why.

quote:


“And since when would you deny anyone the right to vote? Suppose Jews were being denied the right to marry; Judaism is a behavior, after all, so would you be opposed to that as well? And what are your thoughts on the civil rights legislation passed in the 60’s? Or the ERA, for that matter?”


I wouldn’t, what are you bitching about?! Blacks can’t change their color; women can’t change their sex. Follow the reasoning, if you can…

quote:


“And those ministers will tell you they are doing what they do out of a sense of conscience and rightness. Do you think they’ve somehow been brainwashed by gay activists?”


Probabley somewhat. Of course most of them are very liberal, are homosexuals themselves, so of course they want to legitimize it. If they’d read the Bible that they are suppose to interpurt, what part of “…man shall not lie with another man…” didn’t they understand?

quote:


“Again, you seem to think you speak for the entirety of the United States.”


I never said that, but I do speak for the majority, Zogby’s polls tell me so. NAH!

quote:


“Biology? Please, expound on what you mean by this.”


Sure. In case you missed it, men and women are biological complements to each other; one without the other can’t reproduce, therefore, homosexuality is a biological abnormality.(he says, putting on his flak jacket and fire suit).

quote esprix:


“You’re right - what child doesn’t deserve a mom and a dad? So I suppose marriage, as an institution, has failed, what with that just-about 50% divorce rate and all that. I mean, that leaves the kid with just one parent, right? So, which is better - two loving parents, or just one?”


Again, deserves both. So, because the divorce rate is 30%, not the 50% you throw out, we should just let the kids have a second-best “family”?

quote:


“First of all, how dare you refer to a same-sex couple with extended relatives as a family in quotations; you slap the face of every family who is not defined by your outdated, narrow-minded husband/wife/2.5 kids/dog mentality. When straights can get it together enough to keep their own families intact, then maybe they can start casting stones.”


I dare. Two people coming together is not a family. A family is a blood relation, such as mother/son, legal, such as parents/adopted child, or marital, such as husband/wife. Anything else is not a family. Otherwise, any cluster of people could be a family.

quote:


“Any psychologist worth his salt will adamantly point out that the most important thing in any child’s development is that they be in a loving, stable home environment that will be able to deal with a child’s growing up experiences. Plus, do you think kids will be harsher on one kid than another, say, with glasses? Or handicapped? Or of a different race? Maybe you might want to consider teaching your kids tolerance instead of hate.”


Yes, a home with a mother and father. Yes, kids are cruel to other kids that are different, that i can attest to.
Yes, my kid will tolerate, but will also be able to discern right from wrong. Should I “tolerate” pedophiles? Why not? That’s a lifestyle. How about incest? Oh, so you say that’s not ok? Thought so.

quote:


“Every kid deserves love and respect, no matter who they get it from. If I had to choose for my own child, I’d pick a same-sex couple over your close-minded views any day of the week.”


And part of that love is providing them a mom and dad, you’re so pathetic.


Patrick Ashley

‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ -Edmund Burke

quote sanibelman:


"I view it as being a union between two people that love each other. "


So, is it ok for a 45 year old man to marry your 16 year old son? Why not? NAMBLA, the North American Man-Boy Love Association thinks it fine. Take a stand, man.


Patrick Ashley

‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ -Edmund Burke

quote Otto:


“I detect a flaw in the logic. If gays own the media, how did Dr Laura get a radio show in the first place? How did she even get an offer for a TV show? And excuse me, but did the First Amendment get repealed when I was out of the room, that gay people can’t speak out when aggrieved?”


Of course they can, but speak out saying homosexuality is a bad lifestyle, and you are automatically branded evil by them. They are not interested in fairness, only promoting the lifestyle.

quote:


“So, to keep the concept of marriage 'legitimate,” you want to strip it of all legal connotations beyond a piece of paper filed with some county clerk. Tell me, how do same-sex marriages de-legitimize anyone else’s marriage? "


By legitimizing homosexuality. Hey, marriage is a heterosexual institution. Why should we redefine OUR term just for them? Should I go into a Muslim mosque and demand they redefine their definition of God, because I say so?

quote:


“Did you find some evidence that voting is not a behaviour? Is there some reason that you are unable to understand the difference between sexual ORIENTATION and sexual BEHAVIOUR? Are you having sex right now? Are you still heterosexual? See how that works, how your sexual ORIENTATION doesn’t change depending on your sexual BEHAVIOUR?”


Duh. Voting has something to do with constitutional right of representation! Blacks and women were denied this…

quote:
__________________________________________-
“Then you favor removing children from single-parent households and placing them with married couples?”


Of course not, idiot.

quote:


"How dare you judge the quality of someone else’s family? "


Yeah, I dare, when you just throw the term family at anybody that shacks up, for your conveinece’s sake.


Patrick Ashley

‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ -Edmund Burke

Two things:
Pashley said:

So what you’re saying is that if I and the man I love, who have lived together for 8 years, combine our salaries into one bank account, buy a house, a car, a dog, pay taxes, do the yardwork and the laundry, and so on…because we never went to a minister and a judge to get Married, we are not a family?
Or, if we DO go to a minister and a judge to get Married, then we take in an infant child, raise it as our own, feed/clothe/teach/love him, go to his high school graduation, send him to college, stand up at his wedding, cradle his children in our arms, but never get around to “Legally” adopting him…we are not a family?

SanibelMan said:

Always being one to tilt at windmills, I’ll take that challenge. Let’s set up a ‘for instance’: suppose we have four people, men A and B, women C and D. These four individuals decide that they love each other, both emotionally and physically. Yes, we have homosexual attraction between A and B, and between C and D. And we have heterosexual attaction: A to C and D, B to C and D, C to A and B, D to A and B. Suppose these four individuals decide that they want to combine their households- pool their incomes, split up the household responsibilities, buy a house together, all the sorts of things that two individuals do when they fall in love and get married. Maybe they get two double beds and take turns swapping partners, maybe they get one huge bloody bed and all four sleep in it. Either way.

Suppose woman C gets pregnant. The father is either A or B- maybe she knows, maybe she doesn’t. The kid, E, grows up with four adults who love him very much. He has two daddies, and two mommies. Or maybe a mommy and an ‘aunt’- or a daddy and an ‘uncle’. Whatever. Suppose woman D gets pregnant - again, either by A or B. Now E has a brother, F, or a half-brother, or no relationship. Only a genetic test would tell for sure. But E and F are raised as brothers by their two mommies and two daddies.

Is this a family? Is this ‘wrong’? Open to opinions.

[quote]
family (fàm´e-lê, fàm´lê) noun
plural families
Abbr. fam.
1. a. A fundamental social group in society typically consisting of a man and woman and their offspring. b. Two or more people who share goals and values, have long-term commitments to one another, and reside usually in the same dwelling place.
2. All the members of a household under one roof.

household (hous´hold´) noun
1. a. A domestic unit consisting of the members of a family who live together along with nonrelatives such as servants. b. The living spaces and possessions belonging to such a unit.
**2.[b/] A person or group of people occupying a single dwelling: the rise of nonfamily households.

From The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

pashley wrote:

Actually, there are surgeons around that can do surgery on a woman to turn her into a man.

However, (A) female-to-male transsexuals are rarer than the male-to-female variety; (B) female-to-male sex-reassignment surgery is not nearly as good as the male-to-female variety yet, and will only result in a small and marginally-useful penis; and © no form of sex-reassignment surgery, M-F or F-M, will allow its recipient to breed thereafter, unless (s)he was born a hermaphrodite with functioning genitalia of the new target sex.

I was about to give a long argument about why I was against hate-crime legislation, but then I read the last sentence in that quote. Thank you. Not everyone who opposes this well-intentioned bad idea is a bigot like Patrick.

In response to Patty’s assertion that gays control the media, I asked:

And Patty didn’t answer. Please, answer the question.

I asked:

And Patty replied:

Here’s the critical word in my question…HOW. HOW does SSM de-legitimize marriage? I understand you believe this to be true, but you have yet to explain the mechanism. Are you capable of explaining the HOW or are you only capable of blubbing this garbage?

Read Boswell’s Same-sex Unions in Premodern Europe and Eskridge’s The Case for Same-sex Marriage for more information on the existence of SSM in a number of cultures and historical periods.

Because a) it’s not your term exclusively and b) it’s the just thing to do.

Since no church would be forced to perform same-sex marriages, your analogy is faulty.

That is correct, but it is not what I asked. I asked if you have some evidence which indicates going to a polling place and casting a ballot is not a behaviour. I also asked if you were capable of understanding the distinction between the concepts of “behaviour” and “orientation.” Please answer the question.

In response to Patty’s assertion that all children deserve two parents, male and female, one each, I asked:

To which Patty replied:

So much for your insistence on the importance of kids having two parents. If you’re not willing to take children away from single parents, then you have no basis for arguing that children have a right to two parents.

You’re the one who’s defining terms for your own convenience. You’re the one who’s busily denying the reality of what makes up a family. You’re the one clinging to your precious prejudices, and why? You can’t even articulate your position, all you can do is say over and over again that you doon’t like it. Here’s an idea…why don’t you actually apply some critical thinking to your unthinking prejudice?

I know about NAMBLA, and I find their actions deplorable. Something you need to take into consideration is that they DO NOT REPRESENT all homosexuals. This would seem obvious to most, but I thought I’d reiterate it for you. The age of consent in this nation is at least 18 in most areas, I believe - there’s a website somewhere that lists all ages of consent for all states. Who’s got that link? Anyway, I fully support the age of consent limits. I’m in high school, to clarify - I’m 16. I know that very few high school relationships last beyond high school. For good reason. I was actually discussing this with a friend earlier this evening. I asked her why it was that girls seemed to go for assholes (just a trend I’d noticed) instead of the nice, caring guys in high school. Her answer was that with those guys who were jerks, she didn’t feel the threat of pain in the future, because she knew the relationship wouldn’t last. Here’s what she said:

So as you can see, most teenagers need time to mature emotionally before they can really enter a long, loving relationship. To attempt it at this age would be to play with fire. It’s hard to tell at this point if I’m getting my point across, but I’m sure someone out there will understand what I’m getting at - that it’s very dangerous for adolescents to get into loving, long-term relationships or try to cement a lifetime relationship.
And once again, for those who would be prejudiced against homosexuals based on the actions of NAMBLA, I say: Pedophilia is wrong, whether the offender is straight or gay, and the majority of homosexuals are certainly not pedophiles.

Clear?

*Names in quote above have been changed, just so as to cover all the bases.


SanibelMan - My Homepage
“All right. Have it your own way. Road to hell paved with unbought stuffed dogs. Not my fault.”